4 ms·

I've found this concept is near impossible to share without sounding, well, like you put it, "a new-age loon". We haven't really developed a system or language

by jrsdav 5y ago

I've found this concept is near impossible to share without sounding, well, like you put it, "a new-age loon". We haven't really developed a system or language that succinctly expresses the nature of self or experience (well, I only know English. Perhaps other languages lend themselves better). For me, I find the simplest terms to be the most profound way of capturing what you said, but when I say them out loud to someone who hasn't climbed the same "context mountain" I probably sound like someone you would encounter at a drum circle in a public park (which I find nothing to be wrong with, I should add!).

qwerty456127 5y ago
If other languages had proper words right for these things, even the people for whom these languages were native would have to explain the words to the kids somehow. And the only ways to teach someone a word are either explain in simple concepts or point to the object and say "this is it". So having the words doesn't really help much. There actually are such words in Tibetan, Pali, Japanese, Chinese, Sanskrit, native American languages, etc but you won't need them once you actually know what do they really mean and knowing them won't be of much use in expressing the meanings to others who don't know so far. As a rough (yet quite close) example: we have a word for swimming but you can't just say "swim" and see a person who never did like "aha! all I have is to swim!" yet all he has to do actually is to swim and breaking it into simpler concepts isn't a particularly fast way to teach them. I myself learnt to swim (after all the instructors with their theories failed to teach me) just by going into water and trying until I acquired a feeling of how to do it. Curiously enough, there is an easy way to instantly turn the swimming skill of by means of electric stimulation so otherwise normal person believing he can swim (because he did it so many times) would jump into water and immediately discover he doesn't remember how to. If we consider the experiences and understanding we are discussing useful for others (I believe they can have great therapeutic value for many but also be dangerous for many) all we can do is develop and refine systems of guiding people to experience and understand these things themselves. Religions took care of this historically and Buddhism in particular has been particularly productive (and didn't lost nor hid that with time) but I believe a religion with all its mythological, mystical and dogmatic stuff is not really necessary, rational methods are possible.
- jrsdav 5y ago
  > all we can do is develop and refine systems of guiding people to experience and understand these things themselves That’s really well put. Thanks for sharing your insight.

by jrsdav 5y ago

qwerty456127 5y ago

If other languages had proper words right for these things, even the people for whom these languages were native would have to explain the words to the kids somehow. And the only ways to teach someone a word are either explain in simple concepts or point to the object and say "this is it". So having the words doesn't really help much. There actually are such words in Tibetan, Pali, Japanese, Chinese, Sanskrit, native American languages, etc but you won't need them once you actually know what do they really mean and knowing them won't be of much use in expressing the meanings to others who don't know so far. As a rough (yet quite close) example: we have a word for swimming but you can't just say "swim" and see a person who never did like "aha! all I have is to swim!" yet all he has to do actually is to swim and breaking it into simpler concepts isn't a particularly fast way to teach them. I myself learnt to swim (after all the instructors with their theories failed to teach me) just by going into water and trying until I acquired a feeling of how to do it. Curiously enough, there is an easy way to instantly turn the swimming skill of by means of electric stimulation so otherwise normal person believing he can swim (because he did it so many times) would jump into water and immediately discover he doesn't remember how to. If we consider the experiences and understanding we are discussing useful for others (I believe they can have great therapeutic value for many but also be dangerous for many) all we can do is develop and refine systems of guiding people to experience and understand these things themselves. Religions took care of this historically and Buddhism in particular has been particularly productive (and didn't lost nor hid that with time) but I believe a religion with all its mythological, mystical and dogmatic stuff is not really necessary, rational methods are possible.

jrsdav 5y ago
> all we can do is develop and refine systems of guiding people to experience and understand these things themselves That’s really well put. Thanks for sharing your insight.