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I dunno... I think this is just innate. And to be clear: I say this as an inveterate woke hippy and someone deeply distrustful of american police culture. Peo

I dunno... I think this is just innate. And to be clear: I say this as an inveterate woke hippy and someone deeply distrustful of american police culture. People want heroes. Heroes need bad guys. People thus want bad guys and will celebrate the groups that oppose them as heroes. In the US we had heroes fighting japs and nazis, then commies (notably no one ever fought the confederates in pop culture...). But come the age of globalization in the 80's and especially after the collapse of the USSR, we just ran out of bad guys. So we made some up out of the junkies on the street. I mean, certainly there was crime in that world. And at the top it was organized. And there was real violence between cartels and dealers. Those were bad guys! Go get 'em, heroes! TV didn't do that. We did it to ourselves. TV just reflected what we all agreed on.

pjc50 5y ago
> notably no one ever fought the confederates in pop culture... That could be worth unpacking, that one. The confederacy get remarkably good treatment by comparison. I think there's maybe a couple of Westerns on the subject? By comparison there's a lot of films depicting them as misunderstood honorable victims of circumstances. Having watched a lot of bad 80s films in lockdown, it's remarkable how many post-apocalyptic settings look like New York if it was never cleaned up. The peak of course is Escape from new York
reedjosh 5y ago
Well, if you don't have good guys and bad guys, then the government doesn't have the guise of your protection to justify its having and using monopoly of force. Also, I don't think _we_ need them, but narratives that justify the above do. Friends and Seinfeld didn't have heroes and bad guys.
shakna 5y ago
> In the US we had heroes fighting japs and nazis, then commies (notably no one ever fought the confederates in pop culture...). Worth noting that a lot of those you just mentioned either had direct government funding, or received government assistance, because of who they depicted as the bad guys. It wasn't just human nature to paint them as the bad guys, it was part of a propaganda machine (overtly at first during WWII), and continues to this day. If you want to depict the US military in Hollywood, they will help you to do so, with certain rules about what you do or don't depict. Until recently, TV networks received similar funding if they kept a anti-drug thematic in their works. (Though receiving networks of said funding said they didn't rewrite anything to fit those messages). > TV didn't do that. We did it to ourselves. TV just reflected what we all agreed on. I'm afraid I don't think that is clear. TV was actively influenced. What we watch was influenced. To what degree did that influence extend into the social conscience? That's a bit beyond me.
slipframe 5y ago
> In the US we had heroes fighting japs and nazis, then commies (notably no one ever fought the confederates in pop culture...). In modern mass media I can't contradict that, but Stephen Crane's book The Red Badge of Courage was very well received. I believe it is often ranked among the best American novels.

pjc50 5y ago

> notably no one ever fought the confederates in pop culture... That could be worth unpacking, that one. The confederacy get remarkably good treatment by comparison. I think there's maybe a couple of Westerns on the subject? By comparison there's a lot of films depicting them as misunderstood honorable victims of circumstances. Having watched a lot of bad 80s films in lockdown, it's remarkable how many post-apocalyptic settings look like New York if it was never cleaned up. The peak of course is Escape from new York

reedjosh 5y ago

Well, if you don't have good guys and bad guys, then the government doesn't have the guise of your protection to justify its having and using monopoly of force. Also, I don't think _we_ need them, but narratives that justify the above do. Friends and Seinfeld didn't have heroes and bad guys.

shakna 5y ago

> In the US we had heroes fighting japs and nazis, then commies (notably no one ever fought the confederates in pop culture...). Worth noting that a lot of those you just mentioned either had direct government funding, or received government assistance, because of who they depicted as the bad guys. It wasn't just human nature to paint them as the bad guys, it was part of a propaganda machine (overtly at first during WWII), and continues to this day. If you want to depict the US military in Hollywood, they will help you to do so, with certain rules about what you do or don't depict. Until recently, TV networks received similar funding if they kept a anti-drug thematic in their works. (Though receiving networks of said funding said they didn't rewrite anything to fit those messages). > TV didn't do that. We did it to ourselves. TV just reflected what we all agreed on. I'm afraid I don't think that is clear. TV was actively influenced. What we watch was influenced. To what degree did that influence extend into the social conscience? That's a bit beyond me.

slipframe 5y ago

> In the US we had heroes fighting japs and nazis, then commies (notably no one ever fought the confederates in pop culture...). In modern mass media I can't contradict that, but Stephen Crane's book The Red Badge of Courage was very well received. I believe it is often ranked among the best American novels.