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I'm not sure I understand why they're committing to such a long term refactor for a game which has already reached the tail end of its sales curve. As far as I

I'm not sure I understand why they're committing to such a long term refactor for a game which has already reached the tail end of its sales curve. As far as I know there are no internal monetization schemes in Factorio, and I really doubt further updates will boost sales anywhere near enough to justify the dev salaries.

shepherdjerred 5y ago
They're planning to release a paid expansion.
colonwqbang 5y ago
I'm also surprised. Factorio feels like a finished game. It's more polished than most games I've played. Maybe the devs haven't found a worthy new project yet?
- naikrovek 5y ago
  They're working on an expansion for Factorio, and this refactor may have something to do with that. Maybe they just want to leave their code in good shape so they (or someone else) can come back to it at a later time and pick it up relatively quickly.
  - kllrnohj 5y ago
    Expansion packs typically depend on the base game, so improving the base engine is likely directly contributing to the work on the expansion. The expansion is likely changing things about the base game, and they'd want tests to assert both with & without the expansion are still working as intended.
robryan 5y ago
As he says, they don't have external shareholders that are demanding the everything they do maxmise profit.
- mattmanser 5y ago
  Because the worst case scenario is that they get half-way through the refactor, the game's a buggy mess, and then they all move on. And that's got a non-trivial chance of happening.
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    Sounds like a good deal for customers: either the dev team delivers, in which case they get better product, or they don’t, in which case they can keep using the current version.
ashtonkem 5y ago
There are some mentions of a DLC in the works, probably that.
- js8 5y ago
  Yes. I don't know what the DLC will be (personally I hope for water- and air-borne structures, vehicles and enemies), but I am sure I will pay for it.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    I was planning to, but then I saw Kovarex bear his metaphorical ass on the subreddit, and now I'm conflicted.
    - js8 5y ago
      Oh god, you should really think about what a freedom of speech is (suggested reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair). People should have right not to be involved in political discussions, and so they should have the right to tell people to take it elsewhere, even harshly. I am no right-winger (in fact, I am a socialist), but I understand why Kovarex said what he said, and I think he had a right to do it. Yes, civilized discourse is important, but it's also important to respect individual freedom not to be pushed into such discourse from random Reddit hecklers. I suppose it offends your sensibilities not because Kovarex did anything immoral, but because of his word choice. And honestly, I hate this surface level of analysis, where we judge the morality of a person by looking only at the words they use. It's counterproductive to addressing real problems, as there are far too many real villains in this world that are very nice in person.
      - ashtonkem 5y ago
        > Oh god, you should really think about what a freedom of speech is. You're free to read my comment history on this subject matter rather than just making an assumption and patronizing me. You'll probably find that it's more persuasive to actually engage with people than treat them like an idiot right out of the gate. > but I understand why Kovarex said what he said, and I think he had a right to do it Who claimed that he didn't have the right to say that? This is a weak straw man; nobody is claiming that he can't say that, merely that he shouldn't. > I suppose it offends your sensibilities not because Kovarex did anything immoral, but because of his word choice. ... yeah? That's kind of how people work. How you communicate matters. Pretending that we should all just ignore him telling a fan to "shove it up your ass" is to basically ignore how humans actually work and think. > And honestly, I hate this surface level of analysis, where we judge the morality of a person by looking only at the words they use. As compared to what, mind reading? Literally all I have is his words online, and they're toxic and combative. I also really dislike that you're upgrading this to "morality" when my original point was about whether I wanted to do business with him. I feel like this is a neat way to side step my freedom to not do business with him. > It's counterproductive to addressing real problems. So what, I can't make my own decisions based on someone else's behavior because there are other issues? I'm obligated to give him money after he behaved like an asshole because reasons? How absurd.
fooey 5y ago
I would assume they're working on either an expansion or another game using the same engine If you're building a new game and your current GUI paradigm sucks, overhauling it first makes a lot of sense.
EndXA 5y ago
Worth pointing out something that they said in the post (emphasis in italics is mine, the full quote is given for context) > Imagine you have a company that goes slower and slower every quarter, and then you confront the shareholders with the statement, that the way to solve it, is to do absolutely no new features for a quarter or two, refactor the code, learn new methodologies etc. I doubt that the shareholders would allow that. Luckily, we don't have any shareholders, and we understand the vital importance of this investment in the long run. Not only in the project, but also in our skill and knowledge, so we do better next time. This isn't necessarily the full explanation, but it's certainly something to keep in mind.
trollied 5y ago
They're working on an expansion. See: https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-365 https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-365
ranger207 5y ago
Maybe just for fun? This kind of thing is half the game itself after all.

shepherdjerred 5y ago

They're planning to release a paid expansion.

colonwqbang 5y ago

I'm also surprised. Factorio feels like a finished game. It's more polished than most games I've played. Maybe the devs haven't found a worthy new project yet?

naikrovek 5y ago
They're working on an expansion for Factorio, and this refactor may have something to do with that. Maybe they just want to leave their code in good shape so they (or someone else) can come back to it at a later time and pick it up relatively quickly.
- kllrnohj 5y ago
  Expansion packs typically depend on the base game, so improving the base engine is likely directly contributing to the work on the expansion. The expansion is likely changing things about the base game, and they'd want tests to assert both with & without the expansion are still working as intended.

robryan 5y ago

As he says, they don't have external shareholders that are demanding the everything they do maxmise profit.

mattmanser 5y ago
Because the worst case scenario is that they get half-way through the refactor, the game's a buggy mess, and then they all move on. And that's got a non-trivial chance of happening.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  Sounds like a good deal for customers: either the dev team delivers, in which case they get better product, or they don’t, in which case they can keep using the current version.

ashtonkem 5y ago

There are some mentions of a DLC in the works, probably that.

js8 5y ago
Yes. I don't know what the DLC will be (personally I hope for water- and air-borne structures, vehicles and enemies), but I am sure I will pay for it.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  I was planning to, but then I saw Kovarex bear his metaphorical ass on the subreddit, and now I'm conflicted.
  - js8 5y ago
    Oh god, you should really think about what a freedom of speech is (suggested reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair). People should have right not to be involved in political discussions, and so they should have the right to tell people to take it elsewhere, even harshly. I am no right-winger (in fact, I am a socialist), but I understand why Kovarex said what he said, and I think he had a right to do it. Yes, civilized discourse is important, but it's also important to respect individual freedom not to be pushed into such discourse from random Reddit hecklers. I suppose it offends your sensibilities not because Kovarex did anything immoral, but because of his word choice. And honestly, I hate this surface level of analysis, where we judge the morality of a person by looking only at the words they use. It's counterproductive to addressing real problems, as there are far too many real villains in this world that are very nice in person.
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      > Oh god, you should really think about what a freedom of speech is. You're free to read my comment history on this subject matter rather than just making an assumption and patronizing me. You'll probably find that it's more persuasive to actually engage with people than treat them like an idiot right out of the gate. > but I understand why Kovarex said what he said, and I think he had a right to do it Who claimed that he didn't have the right to say that? This is a weak straw man; nobody is claiming that he can't say that, merely that he shouldn't. > I suppose it offends your sensibilities not because Kovarex did anything immoral, but because of his word choice. ... yeah? That's kind of how people work. How you communicate matters. Pretending that we should all just ignore him telling a fan to "shove it up your ass" is to basically ignore how humans actually work and think. > And honestly, I hate this surface level of analysis, where we judge the morality of a person by looking only at the words they use. As compared to what, mind reading? Literally all I have is his words online, and they're toxic and combative. I also really dislike that you're upgrading this to "morality" when my original point was about whether I wanted to do business with him. I feel like this is a neat way to side step my freedom to not do business with him. > It's counterproductive to addressing real problems. So what, I can't make my own decisions based on someone else's behavior because there are other issues? I'm obligated to give him money after he behaved like an asshole because reasons? How absurd.

fooey 5y ago

I would assume they're working on either an expansion or another game using the same engine If you're building a new game and your current GUI paradigm sucks, overhauling it first makes a lot of sense.

EndXA 5y ago

Worth pointing out something that they said in the post (emphasis in italics is mine, the full quote is given for context) > Imagine you have a company that goes slower and slower every quarter, and then you confront the shareholders with the statement, that the way to solve it, is to do absolutely no new features for a quarter or two, refactor the code, learn new methodologies etc. I doubt that the shareholders would allow that. Luckily, we don't have any shareholders, and we understand the vital importance of this investment in the long run. Not only in the project, but also in our skill and knowledge, so we do better next time. This isn't necessarily the full explanation, but it's certainly something to keep in mind.

trollied 5y ago

They're working on an expansion. See: https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-365 https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-365

ranger207 5y ago

Maybe just for fun? This kind of thing is half the game itself after all.