6 ms·

Google Open Source Manager Says "Android Is The Linux Dream Come True"

40 points by dkd903 15y ago

fluidcruft 15y ago
It won't be until Motorola and anyone similar to them dies in a fire. I cannot tell you how much having made the mistake of purchasing a Motorola phone has made me absolutely loath those MBA-led jackasses. Get an Android they say. It's open source, they say. Oh, you didn't know about the locked bootloader? Oh, you expected software updates and bug fixes? LOL. Enjoy your abandoned phone and thanks for the purchase. Android has been far from anything Linux-like so far. The term "Android" does not equate with the types of control over my devices I expect from something that is Open Source. I did learn my lesson and my wife has a Nexus. This Android = Open Source lie is completely misleading bullshit, though. Nobody sells AOSP phones except Google's Nexus line.
- Daniel14 15y ago
  Well, if you care about a locked bootloader and similar restrictions (99% don't), but didn't put the effort into googling your phone to find out about them, you can always root your phone and put on the the newest version - If you didn't get a Nexus in the first place, that is. Also, you'd have to live in the US for it to matter, the vast majority of carriers actually deliver Android updates pretty timely. I agree Android isn't anywhere near a perfect linux dream of open hard- and software, but it isn't as awful as you depict it either imho.
  - darklajid 15y ago
    Non-native english speaker here. Help me, please. Are you saying that the GP that complained about a locked bootloader should just root his phone and update the ROM or bootloader? I mean - isn't that missing the point of the braindead idea/implementation of a locked bootloader?
  - fluidcruft 15y ago
    From my position now, I understand that. It is however not: "Get an Android phone it's open source." Instead, it's find out about all sorts of technical minutia and then find a phone that actually allows you to use the open source. I do live in the US. My phone (Milestone XT720) was released running 2.1 over seven months after 2.2 had been released and I bought it only both after verbal and email confirmation from Motorola support that a 2.2 update was on the way. Nevertheless, Motorola officially abandoned the phone at 2.1 three months after release. They claim it was an honest mistake and the support personnel were confused. Whoops. Motorola has recently confirmed that we will never even get a security update. I didn't know at the time that Motorola were such incompetent assholes and would both lie and never ship updates. Maybe if I had known that I would have learned beforehand what was the locked bootloader. Like I said, I've learned my lesson. My family will never, ever buy anything made by Motorola. Motorola points their fingers at the carrier and the carrier points their finger at the manufacturer. I'm tired of these games. That's it. End of story. It's Nexus only from now on. I don't trust any of the assholes selling phones. Period. If I wanted to buy a locked down phone, I'd buy an iPhone.
- wollw 15y ago
  Well, Samsung did give Cyanogenmod developers Galaxy SIIs: http://www.talkandroid.com/42568-cyanogenmod-dev-gets-sent-a-galaxy-s-ii-from-samsung-wow/ http://www.talkandroid.com/42568-cyanogenmod-dev-gets-sent-a... and HTC is planning to unlock some of theirs: http://phandroid.com/2011/07/11/official-htc-to-deliver-unlocked-bootloader-for-htc-evo-3d-sensation4g-by-early-september/ http://phandroid.com/2011/07/11/official-htc-to-deliver-unlo... The Nexus line isn't completely alone.
sciurus 15y ago
The interview that this article excerpts is at http://derstandard.at/1308186313932/Interview-Google-Android-is-the-Linux-desktop-dream-come-true?linux http://derstandard.at/1308186313932/Interview-Google-Android...
scythe 15y ago
Wait, wait, wait. Android has realized the dream of fully open hardware and software? This is the same Android that comes with a bunch of closed-source stuff [1], stores your data on servers which are not yours, and runs primarily on proprietary handsets? I'm happy for the success of Android and it represents a significant step towards openness in both the mobile phone space and the personal computer space, but this is certainly not the end of the war, nor is it the beginning of the end. Perhaps it is the end of the beginning. [1] - http://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2008/fall/mobile http://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2008/fall/mobile
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- spot 15y ago
  yes it is. if you don't like the closed-source apps, you can run your own pure replacements.
  - scythe 15y ago
    Obviously, and if I don't like Windows, I can install a BSD or anything from http://gnu.org/ http://gnu.org/ and run a fully free computer (or Kolibri or Haiku). That is relevant to the success of the open-source movement on the desktop, but it's not the end-game.
    - spot 15y ago
      that's a bogus comparison: if you replace windows with BSD you aren't running windows anymore. if you replace google's maps app with one from openstreetmaps you are still running android.
      - scythe 15y ago
        That isn't the point, though: the point is that people are using closed-source software by default.
  - deleted 15y ago
binarycrusader 15y ago
If the Linux dream was to randomly pick versions of the kernel, deem them "unsuitable for public distribution", and not release them, sure! I suppose it depends on whose dream they're claiming it is; much like the article notes, I'd imagine most people dream of it being a mainstream desktop OS (which it isn't yet). Perhaps in time desktops will be irrelevant, but until they are, success in the mobile space doesn't seem like much of a dream come true to me, especially with the proprietary aspects to be paid.
bryanlarsen 15y ago
The headline article is a refutation of Di Bona's statement, not an endorsement, so please read the article before commenting. Thanks.
mycroftiv 15y ago
I can't say I think much of an article talking about Android as "The Linux Dream" that doesn't clearly articulate the difference between the Linux kernel and the rest of userland. Android has really demonstrated that Stallman's convention of referring to GNU/Linux and not labeling the whole OS with the name of the kernel should have been adopted for purely practical reasons. If people are happy to call Android "Android", then we should have been calling the desktop os with Linux kernel "GNU" and not "Linux" all this time, shouldn't we? The full names should be Android/Linux and GNU/Linux to differentiate the phone and desktop operating systems. It seems that the power of a corporation to create a brand and call it whatever they want is uncontroversial, and nobody seems bothered by the name Android which makes no mention of the Linux kernel whatsoever, but RMS' thoroughly rational and sensible idea that the right name for the desktop OS should correctly label its major components has been very controversial. I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned here about naming and power relationships, and our implicit acceptance of the dominance of corporate entities such as Google over our discourse.
- aikinai 15y ago
  "Android" is just a far better name than "GNU." The main difference is probably just that it's easily pronounceable, but it also connects to images in people's minds that make it easy to remember. "Linux," like "Android" is most importantly clearly pronounceable. And anytime you have two words like "GNU/Linux" people are just going to use one, likely the one they can read.
  - anigbrowl 15y ago
    I liked 'Gnu', but you're right. While such issues might seem trivial, the fact that Gnu has had the same crappy drawing as its logo for >15 years has always struck me as proof that almost nobody in the Gnu project understands or cares about user experience. I got quite excited when Tux the penguin showed up because it suggested there were still people out there who thought the GUI desktop was rather important.
- spot 15y ago
  If you ship it, you can put your own name on it. That's what's noncontroversial. This has nothing to do with "corporate dominance". RMS was trying to dominate others by telling them how to talk. People find that kind of pedantry annoying. I for one agree with DiBona 100%.
dave1010uk 15y ago
If you're looking for a GNU/Linux mobile device, try MeeGo (currently only the Nokia N9) or Maemo (Nokia N900). MeeGo and Maemo are GNU/Linux with a few small proprietry components.
heyrhett 15y ago
Wow, a lot of people are unhappy here. I suggest that you try the OpenMoko, if you want more freedom: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page I for one am extremely happy that google exists, and is pushing a linux-based, mostly free operating system. The fact that it's gaining so much traction and market share compared to the linux desktop is a dream come true. To develop an app for your mobile device, Apple requires you to: 1. Pay them $99 / year. 2. Use a language mainly specific to apple development 3. Buy their IDE through their App store (or download an older version from their password protected developer website. 4. Run development software on their proprietary operating system. I don't know what Microsoft and other giant companies are doing, but I imagine the development process is not much better. Conversely, I can download eclipse to any computer and write and android app in Java for my phone for free in about an hour. That feels a lot more free to me, even if there are a few locked parts under the hood.
- bergie 15y ago
  OpenMoko? How about Meego? http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/understanding_meego/ http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/understanding_meego/
- darklajid 15y ago
  (I'd say MeeGo is fine, but) OpenMoko? How about WebOS? OpenMoko was a great idea. It's more the HURD of mobile operating systems though.. A failure - it never worked well, was rewritten a thousand times and it sure seems to be dead. Now, MeeGo could've started something new. But - here we're getting into the 'WTH did Nokia think' discussion. I'll leave this discussion to bergie, I guess. WebOS is the sexiest option for me. It runs a real linux stack (like MeeGo), has a great UI (haven't used the N9, but before that I'd say it topped MeeGo and probably Android in most cases) and your applications are by and large web apps, written in JS (lately, using node.js). If I could steer the market with my mind alone, I'd decide this to be the winner/future. Back to my Android now. Need to install another CM release..
darklajid 15y ago
I disagree strongly. Now - I'm an Android user. I just bought one of the upper-class dual core phones and went with Android instead of waiting for the Pre3, giving the N9 a try or something similar. But that's because * I love Google's services. More or less every single one. I don't extend that love to the company, but I like using their stuff. * Innovation seems to happen in the realms of popular and therefor attractive markets. If there's a new thing (tm), it won't be available on WebOS (or MeeGo, or maybe even WP7) for a while. It's more or less iOS vs. Android. RIM's dead in my world. But - am I happy with my choice? Nope.. My choice (Another Android device: Yes/No) was basically accepting defeat and choosing the best compromise, something that worksforme. It's not the Linux dream come true, it's why I installed (among other systems) Windows on my desktop..
ChuckMcM 15y ago
It is interesting to see content spam which targets the HN crowd. This article is clearly web spam, between that ratio of 'written text' to 'ads' to the various typos (common on rapidly written and pushed out type articles) to the disjoint connections (we got Linux, Google, Ubuntu, and Android all in one paragraph). Add to this that we've got a 'private' domain registration hosted out of India by ZDNET and well, it pretty much screams content farm.

40 points by dkd903 15y ago

It won't be until Motorola and anyone similar to them dies in a fire. I cannot tell you how much having made the mistake of purchasing a Motorola phone has made me absolutely loath those MBA-led jackasses. Get an Android they say. It's open source, they say. Oh, you didn't know about the locked bootloader? Oh, you expected software updates and bug fixes? LOL. Enjoy your abandoned phone and thanks for the purchase. Android has been far from anything Linux-like so far. The term "Android" does not equate with the types of control over my devices I expect from something that is Open Source. I did learn my lesson and my wife has a Nexus. This Android = Open Source lie is completely misleading bullshit, though. Nobody sells AOSP phones except Google's Nexus line.

Daniel14 15y ago
Well, if you care about a locked bootloader and similar restrictions (99% don't), but didn't put the effort into googling your phone to find out about them, you can always root your phone and put on the the newest version - If you didn't get a Nexus in the first place, that is. Also, you'd have to live in the US for it to matter, the vast majority of carriers actually deliver Android updates pretty timely. I agree Android isn't anywhere near a perfect linux dream of open hard- and software, but it isn't as awful as you depict it either imho.
- darklajid 15y ago
  Non-native english speaker here. Help me, please. Are you saying that the GP that complained about a locked bootloader should just root his phone and update the ROM or bootloader? I mean - isn't that missing the point of the braindead idea/implementation of a locked bootloader?
- fluidcruft 15y ago
  From my position now, I understand that. It is however not: "Get an Android phone it's open source." Instead, it's find out about all sorts of technical minutia and then find a phone that actually allows you to use the open source. I do live in the US. My phone (Milestone XT720) was released running 2.1 over seven months after 2.2 had been released and I bought it only both after verbal and email confirmation from Motorola support that a 2.2 update was on the way. Nevertheless, Motorola officially abandoned the phone at 2.1 three months after release. They claim it was an honest mistake and the support personnel were confused. Whoops. Motorola has recently confirmed that we will never even get a security update. I didn't know at the time that Motorola were such incompetent assholes and would both lie and never ship updates. Maybe if I had known that I would have learned beforehand what was the locked bootloader. Like I said, I've learned my lesson. My family will never, ever buy anything made by Motorola. Motorola points their fingers at the carrier and the carrier points their finger at the manufacturer. I'm tired of these games. That's it. End of story. It's Nexus only from now on. I don't trust any of the assholes selling phones. Period. If I wanted to buy a locked down phone, I'd buy an iPhone.
wollw 15y ago
Well, Samsung did give Cyanogenmod developers Galaxy SIIs: http://www.talkandroid.com/42568-cyanogenmod-dev-gets-sent-a-galaxy-s-ii-from-samsung-wow/ http://www.talkandroid.com/42568-cyanogenmod-dev-gets-sent-a... and HTC is planning to unlock some of theirs: http://phandroid.com/2011/07/11/official-htc-to-deliver-unlocked-bootloader-for-htc-evo-3d-sensation4g-by-early-september/ http://phandroid.com/2011/07/11/official-htc-to-deliver-unlo... The Nexus line isn't completely alone.

sciurus 15y ago

The interview that this article excerpts is at http://derstandard.at/1308186313932/Interview-Google-Android-is-the-Linux-desktop-dream-come-true?linux http://derstandard.at/1308186313932/Interview-Google-Android...

scythe 15y ago

Wait, wait, wait. Android has realized the dream of fully open hardware and software? This is the same Android that comes with a bunch of closed-source stuff [1], stores your data on servers which are not yours, and runs primarily on proprietary handsets? I'm happy for the success of Android and it represents a significant step towards openness in both the mobile phone space and the personal computer space, but this is certainly not the end of the war, nor is it the beginning of the end. Perhaps it is the end of the beginning. [1] - http://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2008/fall/mobile http://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2008/fall/mobile

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
spot 15y ago
yes it is. if you don't like the closed-source apps, you can run your own pure replacements.
- scythe 15y ago
  Obviously, and if I don't like Windows, I can install a BSD or anything from http://gnu.org/ http://gnu.org/ and run a fully free computer (or Kolibri or Haiku). That is relevant to the success of the open-source movement on the desktop, but it's not the end-game.
  - spot 15y ago
    that's a bogus comparison: if you replace windows with BSD you aren't running windows anymore. if you replace google's maps app with one from openstreetmaps you are still running android.
    - scythe 15y ago
      That isn't the point, though: the point is that people are using closed-source software by default.
- deleted 15y ago

binarycrusader 15y ago

If the Linux dream was to randomly pick versions of the kernel, deem them "unsuitable for public distribution", and not release them, sure! I suppose it depends on whose dream they're claiming it is; much like the article notes, I'd imagine most people dream of it being a mainstream desktop OS (which it isn't yet). Perhaps in time desktops will be irrelevant, but until they are, success in the mobile space doesn't seem like much of a dream come true to me, especially with the proprietary aspects to be paid.

bryanlarsen 15y ago

The headline article is a refutation of Di Bona's statement, not an endorsement, so please read the article before commenting. Thanks.

mycroftiv 15y ago

I can't say I think much of an article talking about Android as "The Linux Dream" that doesn't clearly articulate the difference between the Linux kernel and the rest of userland. Android has really demonstrated that Stallman's convention of referring to GNU/Linux and not labeling the whole OS with the name of the kernel should have been adopted for purely practical reasons. If people are happy to call Android "Android", then we should have been calling the desktop os with Linux kernel "GNU" and not "Linux" all this time, shouldn't we? The full names should be Android/Linux and GNU/Linux to differentiate the phone and desktop operating systems. It seems that the power of a corporation to create a brand and call it whatever they want is uncontroversial, and nobody seems bothered by the name Android which makes no mention of the Linux kernel whatsoever, but RMS' thoroughly rational and sensible idea that the right name for the desktop OS should correctly label its major components has been very controversial. I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned here about naming and power relationships, and our implicit acceptance of the dominance of corporate entities such as Google over our discourse.

aikinai 15y ago
"Android" is just a far better name than "GNU." The main difference is probably just that it's easily pronounceable, but it also connects to images in people's minds that make it easy to remember. "Linux," like "Android" is most importantly clearly pronounceable. And anytime you have two words like "GNU/Linux" people are just going to use one, likely the one they can read.
- anigbrowl 15y ago
  I liked 'Gnu', but you're right. While such issues might seem trivial, the fact that Gnu has had the same crappy drawing as its logo for >15 years has always struck me as proof that almost nobody in the Gnu project understands or cares about user experience. I got quite excited when Tux the penguin showed up because it suggested there were still people out there who thought the GUI desktop was rather important.
spot 15y ago
If you ship it, you can put your own name on it. That's what's noncontroversial. This has nothing to do with "corporate dominance". RMS was trying to dominate others by telling them how to talk. People find that kind of pedantry annoying. I for one agree with DiBona 100%.

dave1010uk 15y ago

If you're looking for a GNU/Linux mobile device, try MeeGo (currently only the Nokia N9) or Maemo (Nokia N900). MeeGo and Maemo are GNU/Linux with a few small proprietry components.

heyrhett 15y ago

Wow, a lot of people are unhappy here. I suggest that you try the OpenMoko, if you want more freedom: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page I for one am extremely happy that google exists, and is pushing a linux-based, mostly free operating system. The fact that it's gaining so much traction and market share compared to the linux desktop is a dream come true. To develop an app for your mobile device, Apple requires you to: 1. Pay them $99 / year. 2. Use a language mainly specific to apple development 3. Buy their IDE through their App store (or download an older version from their password protected developer website. 4. Run development software on their proprietary operating system. I don't know what Microsoft and other giant companies are doing, but I imagine the development process is not much better. Conversely, I can download eclipse to any computer and write and android app in Java for my phone for free in about an hour. That feels a lot more free to me, even if there are a few locked parts under the hood.

bergie 15y ago
OpenMoko? How about Meego? http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/understanding_meego/ http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/understanding_meego/
darklajid 15y ago
(I'd say MeeGo is fine, but) OpenMoko? How about WebOS? OpenMoko was a great idea. It's more the HURD of mobile operating systems though.. A failure - it never worked well, was rewritten a thousand times and it sure seems to be dead. Now, MeeGo could've started something new. But - here we're getting into the 'WTH did Nokia think' discussion. I'll leave this discussion to bergie, I guess. WebOS is the sexiest option for me. It runs a real linux stack (like MeeGo), has a great UI (haven't used the N9, but before that I'd say it topped MeeGo and probably Android in most cases) and your applications are by and large web apps, written in JS (lately, using node.js). If I could steer the market with my mind alone, I'd decide this to be the winner/future. Back to my Android now. Need to install another CM release..

darklajid 15y ago

I disagree strongly. Now - I'm an Android user. I just bought one of the upper-class dual core phones and went with Android instead of waiting for the Pre3, giving the N9 a try or something similar. But that's because * I love Google's services. More or less every single one. I don't extend that love to the company, but I like using their stuff. * Innovation seems to happen in the realms of popular and therefor attractive markets. If there's a new thing (tm), it won't be available on WebOS (or MeeGo, or maybe even WP7) for a while. It's more or less iOS vs. Android. RIM's dead in my world. But - am I happy with my choice? Nope.. My choice (Another Android device: Yes/No) was basically accepting defeat and choosing the best compromise, something that worksforme. It's not the Linux dream come true, it's why I installed (among other systems) Windows on my desktop..

ChuckMcM 15y ago

It is interesting to see content spam which targets the HN crowd. This article is clearly web spam, between that ratio of 'written text' to 'ads' to the various typos (common on rapidly written and pushed out type articles) to the disjoint connections (we got Linux, Google, Ubuntu, and Android all in one paragraph). Add to this that we've got a 'private' domain registration hosted out of India by ZDNET and well, it pretty much screams content farm.