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I've tried a few times to start making a game I consider "simple", the basics are: * Animated character * Top down view * Grid based floor * "Default" RTS/MOBA

by d0100 5y ago

I've tried a few times to start making a game I consider "simple", the basics are: * Animated character * Top down view * Grid based floor * "Default" RTS/MOBA physics I've tried both Unreal and Unity but I've always found myself blocked by having to find out how to make something look like water, how to make an animation sync with movement, how to customize movement to something already familiar, etc This means I can't actually make a game if I first don't make my own pretty much everything I think that more than game engines, we need game frameworks that provided game designers with presets that present "solved" game mechanics, like water styles, ground tiling, precise character animation for any view angle, character movement, etc It would be nice if we could have a "democratization" of video game development anytime in my lifetime

mekkkkkk 5y ago
All you could ever ask for is available in the Unity asset store. A lot of it free.
dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
You seriously need to go through a few standard unity tutorials they offer just after installing, it will save you a lot of time and the blocks you've mentioned.
EamonnMR 5y ago
It helps to start with a less complex game and learn the basics of how the engine works. I know in Godot at least (and I assume Unity is miles ahead) there are prefab things to do what you describe but you will need to know how to fit them together. Another option would be to fork an existing foss RTS game, like Spring, Warzone 2100, BOSwars, etc.
qayxc 5y ago
Maybe I'm missing something, but aren't pretty much all of these issues solved using Blueprint/Prefabs in UE/Unity? Water has a prefab: https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.1/Documentation/Manual/HOWTO-Water.html https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.1/Documentation/Manual/HOWTO-W... Tiling is standard for Terrain Layers: https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.1/Documentation/Manual/class-TerrainLayer.html https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.1/Documentation/Manual/class-T... Syncing animation and movement could be solved using root motion: https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/RootMotion.html https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/RootMotion.html Etc. And then there's whole starter packs for all kinds of genres that include solutions for all these as well. IMHO the two major players have you covered quite well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- d0100 5y ago
  I can find the resources on how to do those things, I have a compiled list of tutorials & code with what I wanted, but that still leaves me with a ratio of 80% programming vs 20% game design It'd be nice to be able to create a character and just attach preset behaviors: walk like Dota, add jump, etc Then I can focus 80% on game design and 20% on development, this way I can know upfront if my game is worth polishing and customizing those presets
  - sombremesa 5y ago
    > It'd be nice to be able to create a character and just attach preset behaviors: walk like Dota, add jump, etc You can already do this via the Unity asset store. But I'm guessing in addition to having your dream engine/working environment, you also don't want to pay a dime for it. They do say you get what you pay for.
    - d0100 5y ago
      I have searched in the Unity asset store, and there is either not what I need, or what I need is in several different packages that aren't seamless to use together, or the cost of everything is more than my monthly salary (non US here) > But I'm guessing in addition to having your dream engine/working environment, you also don't want to pay a dime for it. Before Unity came out the same could be said about people wanting a more accessible engine, no? I'm fine with Unity's and Unreal's pricing models, I just want a more creator friendly game editor that isn't Roblox
      - sombremesa 5y ago
        Really? https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/3d/characters/moba-movement-51340 https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/3d/characters/moba-mov... Come on, man.
        d0100 5y ago
        I have already done myself what that package provides
hesdeadjim 5y ago
There is no easy path to mastery with any engine out there. Games are hard and the learning curve is intimidating. Start small and grow from there. For instance, take a tutorial like this and understand 100% of everything going on: https://learn.unity.com/project/bolt-platformer-tutorial https://learn.unity.com/project/bolt-platformer-tutorial Visual scripting in Unity or Unreal, combined with asset store packages, can get you very far. A buddy of mine shipped a game on Steam built entirely in PlayMaker. But he had spent five years learning and mastering the tool and the engine. YMMV.
brundolf 5y ago
I think that's just the nature of game dev. CRUD apps seem like they're all basically the same, yet we still hand-code them because there are always weird quirks and edge-cases. This is 10x more true for games (at least, remotely interesting ones). A game engine that supports exactly the kind of game you're wanting to make, out of the box, is not really going to support any other kind of game (or even very novel ones within the same genre). So the "everything" engines have to stick to the very most basic, least-common-denominator features, and even those are sprawling and require compromise.
- _manifold 5y ago
  It is exactly the nature of game dev. Most people fail to understand the level of complexity behind it. I think there's also this false sense that "basic features" in games are both simple to implement and universally applicable. By example, grab two successful games that are considered to be in the same genre - say, Counter-Strike Global Offensive and Call of Duty - and compare them on a single, "basic" feature like character movement. There are actually massive differences in how they feel and play, and it goes much deeper than just tweaking some settings on a customizable character controller asset. It's easy to take stuff like this for granted and just assume the implementation is simple. In reality it is much more complex than that, and many of the differences that seem subtle may actually be much greater when it comes to design and programming.
gameswithgo 5y ago
There are lots of asset packs for things like that. So you can get stuff done if you don't mind things not looking and not performing exactly the way you want, and don't mind your game having assets that people might recognize from other games! Otherwise yeah, making a game is hard.
spywaregorilla 5y ago
It's a learning curve. You don't need to reinvent all these things, but you do need to learn the tooling. * Animation sync with movement in unreal is done either by embedding root motion into your animations or just trying to use a blendspace to make movement animation fluidly transition with your speed. * Movement is customized for basic characters via the character movement controller component. * Water is a hard problem but the basic ue4 water implementation is good: https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.26/en-US/BuildingWorlds/Water/ https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.26/en-US/BuildingWorlds/Wate... * Top down view is just a camera facing down
TrainedMonkey 5y ago
Sounds like you don't want game engine, you want a fully coded game with a map maker.
- bee_rider 5y ago
  Wonder how much of the current gaming ecosystem is originally rooted in the Warcraft 3 map making scene.
  - elefanten 5y ago
    If you’re asking, you may know this already, but the whole MOBA genre (eg League of Legends) came from custom war3 maps.
    - _manifold 5y ago
      The roots may actually go back further than that. There's a custom map for Starcraft/Brood War which used single hero control and lane pushing mechanics and predates the WC3 DotA maps: https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Aeon_of_Strife_(map) https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Aeon_of_Strife_(map)
      - bee_rider 5y ago
        There was also a Warcraft 3 conversion (Dunno if it was done by the same people) that, at least, I saw before DotA took over the custom games channel.
codefreakxff 5y ago
I’m not advocating for Roblox because it’s quite terrible. But. They did make it stupidly simple to make stupid 3D games. If you like getting eaten and slowly have poop stuck to you while falling through the digestive system until you are pooped out… I have not tried godot yet but it’s something I’m going to get to soon https://godotengine.org/ https://godotengine.org/
- madpata 5y ago
  Maybe keep an eye out for S&Box, the successor to Garry'sMod. It's not out yet, but uses the Source 2 engine and C# for modding, and will probably have an active community from launch.
- Applejinx 5y ago
  Godot is coming up mighty quick. I've been favorably impressed. Also, if your concept is 2D, it's way beyond the 3D-centric game engines for that task: might not be the question being asked, but it's worth a thought.
- isiahl 5y ago
  Why is Roblox terrible?
gentleman11 5y ago
If you want a game template, there are lots available in the gaming marketplaces. Your game will be almost identical to its competitors though
JabavuAdams 5y ago
Unity Asset Store has done this. Unreal / Blueprints fulfill the same role, but I'm less familiar with them.
lazypenguin 5y ago
Yes I agree with you. Even with unity/unreal/etc. it’s still a monumental amount of work to have a game. Personally, I have more fun modding a fully functioning game than I do starting from scratch.
- mihaifm 5y ago
  Modding is a totally underrated thing right now, but I feel it might become big in the future. Someone just needs to come up with a solution to both keep mods free and incentivize mod authors. The way I see it, the big boys create games that acts as platforms and users freely create content of their own using these platforms. Bethesda/Microsoft might be in a good position to achieve this, they have good modding communities around their other games, really interested what their next title brings to the table, hope they don't blow it up like the last time they tried to monetize mods. You also have something like Roblox, where the concepts of game development and modding kinda blend together, so it's definitely a trend to keep an eye on in the future.
  - madpata 5y ago
    You should keep an eye out for S&Box! It's the successor to the popular Garry's Mod. Garry's Mod is, imo, the sandbox and modding game and I think that S&Box will be even better. It's based on the Source 2 engine, and the main developer Garry has collected a lot of experience with GMod. While GMod mods are based on Lua, S&Box uses C#, which is an awesome choice, imo. C# is a bit more verbose than Lua, but it probably enables mods of higher quality. It's not out yet, but some keys get distributed to chosen people. Sadly, I'm not one of those.
    - mihaifm 5y ago
      Thanks, subscribed to their subreddit. Never had the time to jump into Garry's Mod but might give this one a try when it comes out.
bitwize 5y ago
The Unity marketplace has lots of things like that. Only drawback is, you run the risk of players being able to identify all the readymades you used. Use too many, and your game will feel like an unoriginal "asset flip".

by d0100 5y ago

mekkkkkk 5y ago

All you could ever ask for is available in the Unity asset store. A lot of it free.

dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago

You seriously need to go through a few standard unity tutorials they offer just after installing, it will save you a lot of time and the blocks you've mentioned.

EamonnMR 5y ago

It helps to start with a less complex game and learn the basics of how the engine works. I know in Godot at least (and I assume Unity is miles ahead) there are prefab things to do what you describe but you will need to know how to fit them together. Another option would be to fork an existing foss RTS game, like Spring, Warzone 2100, BOSwars, etc.

qayxc 5y ago

Maybe I'm missing something, but aren't pretty much all of these issues solved using Blueprint/Prefabs in UE/Unity? Water has a prefab: https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.1/Documentation/Manual/HOWTO-Water.html https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.1/Documentation/Manual/HOWTO-W... Tiling is standard for Terrain Layers: https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.1/Documentation/Manual/class-TerrainLayer.html https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.1/Documentation/Manual/class-T... Syncing animation and movement could be solved using root motion: https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/RootMotion.html https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/RootMotion.html Etc. And then there's whole starter packs for all kinds of genres that include solutions for all these as well. IMHO the two major players have you covered quite well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

d0100 5y ago
I can find the resources on how to do those things, I have a compiled list of tutorials & code with what I wanted, but that still leaves me with a ratio of 80% programming vs 20% game design It'd be nice to be able to create a character and just attach preset behaviors: walk like Dota, add jump, etc Then I can focus 80% on game design and 20% on development, this way I can know upfront if my game is worth polishing and customizing those presets
- sombremesa 5y ago
  > It'd be nice to be able to create a character and just attach preset behaviors: walk like Dota, add jump, etc You can already do this via the Unity asset store. But I'm guessing in addition to having your dream engine/working environment, you also don't want to pay a dime for it. They do say you get what you pay for.
  - d0100 5y ago
    I have searched in the Unity asset store, and there is either not what I need, or what I need is in several different packages that aren't seamless to use together, or the cost of everything is more than my monthly salary (non US here) > But I'm guessing in addition to having your dream engine/working environment, you also don't want to pay a dime for it. Before Unity came out the same could be said about people wanting a more accessible engine, no? I'm fine with Unity's and Unreal's pricing models, I just want a more creator friendly game editor that isn't Roblox
    - sombremesa 5y ago
      Really? https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/3d/characters/moba-movement-51340 https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/3d/characters/moba-mov... Come on, man.
      - d0100 5y ago
        I have already done myself what that package provides

hesdeadjim 5y ago

There is no easy path to mastery with any engine out there. Games are hard and the learning curve is intimidating. Start small and grow from there. For instance, take a tutorial like this and understand 100% of everything going on: https://learn.unity.com/project/bolt-platformer-tutorial https://learn.unity.com/project/bolt-platformer-tutorial Visual scripting in Unity or Unreal, combined with asset store packages, can get you very far. A buddy of mine shipped a game on Steam built entirely in PlayMaker. But he had spent five years learning and mastering the tool and the engine. YMMV.

brundolf 5y ago

I think that's just the nature of game dev. CRUD apps seem like they're all basically the same, yet we still hand-code them because there are always weird quirks and edge-cases. This is 10x more true for games (at least, remotely interesting ones). A game engine that supports exactly the kind of game you're wanting to make, out of the box, is not really going to support any other kind of game (or even very novel ones within the same genre). So the "everything" engines have to stick to the very most basic, least-common-denominator features, and even those are sprawling and require compromise.

_manifold 5y ago
It is exactly the nature of game dev. Most people fail to understand the level of complexity behind it. I think there's also this false sense that "basic features" in games are both simple to implement and universally applicable. By example, grab two successful games that are considered to be in the same genre - say, Counter-Strike Global Offensive and Call of Duty - and compare them on a single, "basic" feature like character movement. There are actually massive differences in how they feel and play, and it goes much deeper than just tweaking some settings on a customizable character controller asset. It's easy to take stuff like this for granted and just assume the implementation is simple. In reality it is much more complex than that, and many of the differences that seem subtle may actually be much greater when it comes to design and programming.

gameswithgo 5y ago

There are lots of asset packs for things like that. So you can get stuff done if you don't mind things not looking and not performing exactly the way you want, and don't mind your game having assets that people might recognize from other games! Otherwise yeah, making a game is hard.

spywaregorilla 5y ago

It's a learning curve. You don't need to reinvent all these things, but you do need to learn the tooling. * Animation sync with movement in unreal is done either by embedding root motion into your animations or just trying to use a blendspace to make movement animation fluidly transition with your speed. * Movement is customized for basic characters via the character movement controller component. * Water is a hard problem but the basic ue4 water implementation is good: https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.26/en-US/BuildingWorlds/Water/ https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.26/en-US/BuildingWorlds/Wate... * Top down view is just a camera facing down

TrainedMonkey 5y ago

Sounds like you don't want game engine, you want a fully coded game with a map maker.

bee_rider 5y ago
Wonder how much of the current gaming ecosystem is originally rooted in the Warcraft 3 map making scene.
- elefanten 5y ago
  If you’re asking, you may know this already, but the whole MOBA genre (eg League of Legends) came from custom war3 maps.
  - _manifold 5y ago
    The roots may actually go back further than that. There's a custom map for Starcraft/Brood War which used single hero control and lane pushing mechanics and predates the WC3 DotA maps: https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Aeon_of_Strife_(map) https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Aeon_of_Strife_(map)
    - bee_rider 5y ago
      There was also a Warcraft 3 conversion (Dunno if it was done by the same people) that, at least, I saw before DotA took over the custom games channel.

codefreakxff 5y ago

I’m not advocating for Roblox because it’s quite terrible. But. They did make it stupidly simple to make stupid 3D games. If you like getting eaten and slowly have poop stuck to you while falling through the digestive system until you are pooped out… I have not tried godot yet but it’s something I’m going to get to soon https://godotengine.org/ https://godotengine.org/

madpata 5y ago
Maybe keep an eye out for S&Box, the successor to Garry'sMod. It's not out yet, but uses the Source 2 engine and C# for modding, and will probably have an active community from launch.
Applejinx 5y ago
Godot is coming up mighty quick. I've been favorably impressed. Also, if your concept is 2D, it's way beyond the 3D-centric game engines for that task: might not be the question being asked, but it's worth a thought.
isiahl 5y ago
Why is Roblox terrible?

gentleman11 5y ago

If you want a game template, there are lots available in the gaming marketplaces. Your game will be almost identical to its competitors though

JabavuAdams 5y ago

Unity Asset Store has done this. Unreal / Blueprints fulfill the same role, but I'm less familiar with them.

lazypenguin 5y ago

Yes I agree with you. Even with unity/unreal/etc. it’s still a monumental amount of work to have a game. Personally, I have more fun modding a fully functioning game than I do starting from scratch.

mihaifm 5y ago
Modding is a totally underrated thing right now, but I feel it might become big in the future. Someone just needs to come up with a solution to both keep mods free and incentivize mod authors. The way I see it, the big boys create games that acts as platforms and users freely create content of their own using these platforms. Bethesda/Microsoft might be in a good position to achieve this, they have good modding communities around their other games, really interested what their next title brings to the table, hope they don't blow it up like the last time they tried to monetize mods. You also have something like Roblox, where the concepts of game development and modding kinda blend together, so it's definitely a trend to keep an eye on in the future.
- madpata 5y ago
  You should keep an eye out for S&Box! It's the successor to the popular Garry's Mod. Garry's Mod is, imo, the sandbox and modding game and I think that S&Box will be even better. It's based on the Source 2 engine, and the main developer Garry has collected a lot of experience with GMod. While GMod mods are based on Lua, S&Box uses C#, which is an awesome choice, imo. C# is a bit more verbose than Lua, but it probably enables mods of higher quality. It's not out yet, but some keys get distributed to chosen people. Sadly, I'm not one of those.
  - mihaifm 5y ago
    Thanks, subscribed to their subreddit. Never had the time to jump into Garry's Mod but might give this one a try when it comes out.

bitwize 5y ago

The Unity marketplace has lots of things like that. Only drawback is, you run the risk of players being able to identify all the readymades you used. Use too many, and your game will feel like an unoriginal "asset flip".