4 ms·

Its almost like Test Driven Development is the practice of using tests to drive development.

by lugged 5y ago

dgb23 5y ago
Much of TDD mantra is less about development but about (perceived) correctness, the article in question emphasizes the development part, where they describe their AHA moment.
- berkes 5y ago
  > Much of TDD mantra is less about development but about (perceived) correctness, I have (seriously!) never heard it reference like this at all. Every introductory article, every book, every tutorial, every video about TDD (or BDD) that I consumed, emphasised that it is about "workflow", about "a way of development" and not about percieved correctness. Do note that the crucial different is that TDD > automated testing. In the sense that with TDD you write automated tests (that live in a test suite). But that "writing tests" or "developing a testsuite" is not nessecarily TDD.
  - dgb23 5y ago
    Yes in relation to automated testing it is obviously focusing on the development aspect, but as a whole method there is an at least implied and sometimes explicitly emphasized correctness benefit, that doesn't just come from automated tests but from the method of driving design through testing. In my personal opinion this claim goes too far. I think we can often explore aspects of design through code (including tests) but it can't be the main driver of design in any circumstance, nor does it by default or in general make our modules and programs more correct. The key benefit of doing this is that we have to think of code in terms of invariants and testability. But that is just one of many, sometimes conflicting factors and there are certainly more approaches to doing this than writing automated (unit-) tests.
  - hwayne 5y ago
    The original TDD book said it was both.
- lugged 5y ago
  Also need to echo the above. The TDD book itself is barely even about testing, it's almost entirely about development processes and different types of refactoring and how to use tests to get from a to b. Correctness is rarely emphasized if at all.
- ffhhj 5y ago
  > (perceived) correctness Right, in TDD there is "always" a range of values against which you are not testing. A developer can only create a finite amount of tests, and the program will fail with any of the missing permutations.

Its almost like Test Driven Development is the practice of using tests to drive development.

by lugged 5y ago

Its almost like Test Driven Development is the practice of using tests to drive development.

Much of TDD mantra is less about development but about (perceived) correctness, the article in question emphasizes the development part, where they describe their AHA moment.

berkes 5y ago
> Much of TDD mantra is less about development but about (perceived) correctness, I have (seriously!) never heard it reference like this at all. Every introductory article, every book, every tutorial, every video about TDD (or BDD) that I consumed, emphasised that it is about "workflow", about "a way of development" and not about percieved correctness. Do note that the crucial different is that TDD > automated testing. In the sense that with TDD you write automated tests (that live in a test suite). But that "writing tests" or "developing a testsuite" is not nessecarily TDD.
- dgb23 5y ago
  Yes in relation to automated testing it is obviously focusing on the development aspect, but as a whole method there is an at least implied and sometimes explicitly emphasized correctness benefit, that doesn't just come from automated tests but from the method of driving design through testing. In my personal opinion this claim goes too far. I think we can often explore aspects of design through code (including tests) but it can't be the main driver of design in any circumstance, nor does it by default or in general make our modules and programs more correct. The key benefit of doing this is that we have to think of code in terms of invariants and testability. But that is just one of many, sometimes conflicting factors and there are certainly more approaches to doing this than writing automated (unit-) tests.
- hwayne 5y ago
  The original TDD book said it was both.
lugged 5y ago
Also need to echo the above. The TDD book itself is barely even about testing, it's almost entirely about development processes and different types of refactoring and how to use tests to get from a to b. Correctness is rarely emphasized if at all.
ffhhj 5y ago
> (perceived) correctness Right, in TDD there is "always" a range of values against which you are not testing. A developer can only create a finite amount of tests, and the program will fail with any of the missing permutations.