3 ms·

Anecdotally, I lost multiple male friends when I came out as bisexual, so the “fragile masculinity” theory feels especially apt. The fear of being perceived as

Anecdotally, I lost multiple male friends when I came out as bisexual, so the “fragile masculinity” theory feels especially apt. The fear of being perceived as anything other than heterosexual by association seems to be a big problem with many men.

nicoburns 5y ago
I had a similar problem in school. Kids didn't want to be associated with me because they thought I was gay (even though it turned in my case that I'm not). I think in many cases not because they personally had a problem with being gay, but because they were afraid of becoming a target themselves by association.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zozbot234 5y ago
That's especially interesting because bisexuality was historically quite compatible with traditional ideas of masculinity. So it seems that masculinity has unwittingly become more fragile due to cultural changes reframing anything other than plain heterosexuality as "modern, cool, not traditional" and conversely restricting traditional masculine identity to a pure heterosexual role.
- imbnwa 5y ago
  What's interesting that you see this come up in places in cinematic period pieces like Takeshi Kitano's Zatoichi remake, Oliver Stone's Alexander, the shows _Rome_ and _Spartacus_ on HBO. We _should_ have seen this in Zack Snyder's _300_ as well (Spartans allowed for same-sex relations in older/younger male mentorships in their warrior-aristocracy training, much of the lifestyles of Spartan citizens would be prohibited from being depicted) but that movie chose to be a historically inaccurate Triump of the Will of the straightest of straight male masculinity.
MikeUt 5y ago
That you lost friends is a fact, that it was due to "fear of association" is speculation, one explanation among many.
- walugipnts 5y ago
  It wasn’t speculation, they still associate with other people I know and I have heard the reasoning either directly or indirectly in every case.
perl4ever 5y ago
The problem with analyzing the behavior of other people is that they are usually trying to do the same to you, which throws straight-forward logical assumptions off. "only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool; you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me."

nicoburns 5y ago

I had a similar problem in school. Kids didn't want to be associated with me because they thought I was gay (even though it turned in my case that I'm not). I think in many cases not because they personally had a problem with being gay, but because they were afraid of becoming a target themselves by association.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

zozbot234 5y ago

That's especially interesting because bisexuality was historically quite compatible with traditional ideas of masculinity. So it seems that masculinity has unwittingly become more fragile due to cultural changes reframing anything other than plain heterosexuality as "modern, cool, not traditional" and conversely restricting traditional masculine identity to a pure heterosexual role.

imbnwa 5y ago
What's interesting that you see this come up in places in cinematic period pieces like Takeshi Kitano's Zatoichi remake, Oliver Stone's Alexander, the shows _Rome_ and _Spartacus_ on HBO. We _should_ have seen this in Zack Snyder's _300_ as well (Spartans allowed for same-sex relations in older/younger male mentorships in their warrior-aristocracy training, much of the lifestyles of Spartan citizens would be prohibited from being depicted) but that movie chose to be a historically inaccurate Triump of the Will of the straightest of straight male masculinity.

MikeUt 5y ago

That you lost friends is a fact, that it was due to "fear of association" is speculation, one explanation among many.

walugipnts 5y ago
It wasn’t speculation, they still associate with other people I know and I have heard the reasoning either directly or indirectly in every case.

perl4ever 5y ago

The problem with analyzing the behavior of other people is that they are usually trying to do the same to you, which throws straight-forward logical assumptions off. "only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool; you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me."