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Why more women identify as sexually fluid than men
- enriquto 5y agoI don't understand your meat noises Why is identity so important to folks? I'm attracted to some people, but I don't consider this fact any part of "my identity". Does this mean that I am lacking a basic human characteristic? Most of the language in this article sounds empty, when not foreign. It seems that I'm missing out something very important, but it really doesn't "click" for me. I guess I never moved past my condescending teenager phase [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmKix-75dsg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmKix-75dsg
- lorlou 5y agoIdentity is important to people who don't have a personality, so I'm not surprised by what the title of this article says.
- long_time_gone 5y agoI'm having trouble following this, can you more clearly state the point you are making?
- MillenialMan 5y agoYou're not missing anything, the point of these kinds of articles is to elevate sexual identity above other aspects of identity (like honesty, moral compass, skills) and sell that to people who feel listless. It's the commodification of identity. If you're gay, it's inevitably going to be important, but that's not the point of articles like this. It's healthy to be disinterested when it's a product.
- gccs 5y agoThe ultimate commodification of beauty is selling plastic surgery. No literally anyone can be a beautiful woman with a few surgeries and hormones.
- kayodelycaon 5y agoThe whole LGBT movement and stuff wouldn’t need to exist if people were accepting. People aren’t. And still aren’t. When you actively oppress people for who they are, it’s not surprising it becomes more important.
- tenpies 5y agoWhy do LGBT movements still exist in cultures that were/are very accepting of LBTQ individuals then? Alternatively: why are they completely absent in the countries that need them the most?
- kayodelycaon 5y agoYou can see them in more accepting countries, but many of those countries were far from accepting before. The US wouldn’t need Black Lives Matter if they actually did. Skin color wouldn’t matter and wouldn’t be part of people’s identity if people weren’t racist.
- xupybd 5y agoThat's interesting as I see BLM in it's current form increasing the racial divide.
- dragonwriter 5y agoSeems to me that they are exacerbating the left/right divide (with the neoliberal center-right facing some internal divides), but not so much the racial divide.
- plutonorm 5y agoClueless.
- croon 5y agoWhy do scarecrows still exist in fields with no birds? Why are there no scarecrows in fields full of birds, where they would be needed the most?
- czbond 5y ago>> RE: It seems that I'm missing out something very important, but it really doesn't "click" for me. edit: I'm addressing identity as a whole - not in the context of s3xual preferences. I am no psychologist - but an engineer. I've noticed us engineers aren't feelers. More often we run our interpretation of the world through logic and thinking first, rather than feelings first. Some people are heavy feelers and run events through feelings first, especially if extroverts which also means they might look to the external world for validation - and only then run their perspective through the logic domain of the brain. Neither is right nor wrong; I've noticed feeling & sensor types seem to have 'higher highs, and lower lows' in life.
- dennis_jeeves 5y ago>Neither is right nor wrong; My friend, aren't you being a little too nice, here? How much do we bend backward to accommodate these 'feelers'. IMO option these 'feelers' are children who never grew up and continue to be parasites on the 'adults' around them. Granted that for many, their traits may be biologically innate, but the 'adults' have only so much of goodwill to spare...
- whydoibother 5y agoAnd thinkers are automata with no empathy or compassion. Stop denigrating people for processing reality differently than you.
- mcphage 5y ago> I've noticed us engineers aren't feelers. More often we run our interpretation of the world through logic and thinking first, rather than feelings first. Engineers process things emotionally, too—we’re all human. Often they just refuse to recognize or admit those emotions, and get really resentful when faced with them, or forced to question their own feelings.
- jlokier 5y agoThat's not what I've noticed in engineers. What I've noticed most often is engineers, who say they are logical and thinking-first unemotionally, exhibiting: Anger, frustration, anxiety, exasperation, beligerence, smugness, laughter. You've almost certainly met engineers who agitatedly tell you how much they are logical, beligerently "reason" with colleagues, or gleefully put down people they regard as soft and emotional. Those are emotions. This isn't true of everyone of course. Some people really seem like the emotion chip wasn't fitted. But I have noticed intense emotions in a number of engineers who explicitly describe themselves as being unemotional, logical, and thinking clearly. It's an interesting blind spot.
- wccrawford 5y agoNo, some people don't feel so strongly about this as part of their identity. I am definitely "male" and I definitely like "women", but it doesn't cause me mental anguish to think a man looks good. Other men clearly have a problem with that thought. I used to be bothered by the fact that I was uncomfortable when men would find me attractive. But I've realized that what's actually uncomfortable is anyone that I don't want to date, not just men. And now that I'm married, that's everyone but my wife. That same feeling I used to get when a man admitted they were attracted to me, I'd now feel when a woman says it. IMO, you seem like you're on a path of introspection. I'd encourage you to do that introspection with less worry about being "wrong" and more thought towards how everyone is different. If you feel something that you think is morally or ethically wrong, then I'd worry about that. But "gender isn't part of my identity" isn't wrong, and it's probably a lot more normal than you'd think. I mean, who talks about what they aren't unless it's a hot social topic right now?
- debacle 5y agoIn this day and age, and especially as I grow older, I have more and more respect for men (and women) who look good, almost in a platonic fashion. Attractiveness is a summation of multiple fitness factors, and overall those factors have been on the decline. Edit: It's also not easy to look good, especially if you are 30+. It takes effort.
- tovej 5y agoAny characteristic that is relatable can be part of your identity. Or, put another way, any differences between you and another person which makes your emotional responses different can be part of your identity. People who can relate around a subject can form a group identity. If a person in a group has a different base reaction to the rest of the group (and especially if the reactions are incompatible, unaccepting of each other), the person can feel outside of the group. They will not identify with the group. Sexuality is definitely part of a person's identity. Emotional responses to sex/sexuality are quite involuntary after all.
- rvanlaar 5y agoIt's indeed because the language is empty and it should raise flags. The posed question isn't answered. The article mentions that a higher percentage of women are lesbians. It implies that sexual fluidity is the opposite of heterosexuality, i.e. gay/lesbian. Also look at how this article treats sex and gender as stable categories. That's very weird coming from researchers that study sexual fluidity.
- zozbot234 5y agoAIUI, pure homosexuality is rather more common in males than females. That's not to say that male bisexuality or fluidity is not a thing for some males, of course it is. But pure lesbianism is comparatively rare.
- senectus1 5y agoCompletely agree. I'm happy for people to attach their identity to their sexuality, but i dont get it either.
- cyanydeez 5y agoprobably cause its been so important to _other_ people. also, science tells us that the larger a community of mammals is, the greater their visual diversity becomes. since the internet can make you feel like your community is billions of people, the lengths people go to "identify" themxelves will be extreme. so, yesn tubmlrizing the dragonkin with the co spiracy kin is a very nstural affair. even your "hot take" is part of a identity you are trying to create.
- oliwarner 5y agoThe drive for community identity is a function of perceived oppression. Safety in numbers. I don't want to rule out you being deeply abnormal, but perhaps you just feel accepted for who you are.
- throwa9999999 5y ago> masculinity is a “fragile concept” And this is why this article will be flagged and dead in... Queue the primary HN demographic of fragile men
- bradleyjg 5y agoSex coach and educator Violet Turning, 24, also points out the “fetishisation” of two women having sex or making out, specifically under the male gaze. It’s made same-sexual attraction between women more socially acceptable, albeit for the wrong reasons. Meanwhile, people seem to find notions of two men having sex far less palatable. A 2019 study that looked at attitudes toward gay men and women in 23 countries found, across the board, that “gay men are disliked more than lesbian women”. It can’t be that heterosexual men are more tolerant and accepting of bisexual women than heterosexual women are of bisexual men. Instead it has to be bad “fetishisation” that just happens to have some positive side effects because heterosexual men are not allowed to have any positive qualities.
- nicoburns 5y agoThis quote from the article speaks to that: > “Progress has really been made around the female gender role and less around the male gender role,” says Massey. I think this is a consequence of there being a female-focussed feminist movement, but not an equivalent movement focussed around male empowerment. It means that analyses like these are typically done from a female perspective with all the usual implicit biases that come from that.
- czbond 5y agoI think it is more base than this. I believe it is that males with higher testosterone appear to focus on s3x more often than other groups; and they on the whole like girls.
- rvanlaar 5y agoWell, there are male empowerment movements. Have a look at the documentary The Red Pill by Cassie Jaye. It's really disingenuous of the article to not look in the mirror and acknowledge what is happening. What happens when males are the default oppressor, masculinity deemed toxic and male empowerment movements are actively boycotted?
- nicoburns 5y ago
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- walugipnts 5y agoAnecdotally, I lost multiple male friends when I came out as bisexual, so the “fragile masculinity” theory feels especially apt. The fear of being perceived as anything other than heterosexual by association seems to be a big problem with many men.
- nicoburns 5y agoI had a similar problem in school. Kids didn't want to be associated with me because they thought I was gay (even though it turned in my case that I'm not). I think in many cases not because they personally had a problem with being gay, but because they were afraid of becoming a target themselves by association.
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- zozbot234 5y agoThat's especially interesting because bisexuality was historically quite compatible with traditional ideas of masculinity. So it seems that masculinity has unwittingly become more fragile due to cultural changes reframing anything other than plain heterosexuality as "modern, cool, not traditional" and conversely restricting traditional masculine identity to a pure heterosexual role.
- imbnwa 5y agoWhat's interesting that you see this come up in places in cinematic period pieces like Takeshi Kitano's Zatoichi remake, Oliver Stone's Alexander, the shows _Rome_ and _Spartacus_ on HBO. We _should_ have seen this in Zack Snyder's _300_ as well (Spartans allowed for same-sex relations in older/younger male mentorships in their warrior-aristocracy training, much of the lifestyles of Spartan citizens would be prohibited from being depicted) but that movie chose to be a historically inaccurate Triump of the Will of the straightest of straight male masculinity.
- MikeUt 5y agoThat you lost friends is a fact, that it was due to "fear of association" is speculation, one explanation among many.
- rvz 5y agoA BBC Exclusive. Obviously.
- underseacables 5y agoI am Neither psychologist or neuroscientist, but a humble man, so take this with a grain of salt: I think sometimes women do things to be different or to protect themselves. Like straight girls in high school claiming they are bisexual when they are not. It makes them different, but it also might serve as a defense mechanism for some people and situations.
- imbnwa 5y agoYou may not be entirely off, a friend of mine once told me "Do you know how many lesbians I had to talk to before I found a girlfriend?"
- failwhaleshark 5y agoIt's good that more people, which includes women, can live how they want now. I'm a straight, sapio+demisexual (women are pretty, but strangers don't do anything for me), polygynous man with an absurd, irrational sporting interest in piquing interest, foreplay, and seduction, but very rarely closing the bedroom door with an unknown woman or women. I am interested in smart, fun, young (AGR), beauties who tend to be bi or pan, since that's who is also interested in me. I have no qualms about a "steady" girl(s) hitting-on other girl(s), being with other girl(s), or bringing us or me more girl(s); they can go play all they want. Lot of people hate me for this or that, either jealousy or lifestyle judgements. Fuck them. Live life as it works best for you as long as you're honest with others.
- greenbleach 5y ago> Lot of people hate me for this or that, either jealousy or lifestyle judgements. It's great to live how you prefer, and it's not right for people to hate you for it. I perceive your self description to be pretentious and creepy. Just an alternate explanation.
- vixit 5y agoWhat about women you're seeing playing with other men? Because that screams one penis policy to me and I'd def avoid someone who said that to me like the plague
- sunstone 5y agoMy guess is evolutionary selection. One above average male with two or three females would be a more fit reproductive group than a male female pair, and with not much more in the way conflicts of interest. Whereas one female and a couple of males seems unstable from the start. EDIT: typos
- krapp 5y agoThat's not what sexual fluidity refers to.
- ykevinator3 5y agoThis is a side effect of social media and the vanity economy. I respect all genders and orientations but I doubt they're all and their volume mathematically viable in one or two generations.