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I feel that there's almost 'Protect Tesla at any cost' order, even though there clearly isn't one. I have this heavy feeling that should Tesla crash and burn, t

I feel that there's almost 'Protect Tesla at any cost' order, even though there clearly isn't one. I have this heavy feeling that should Tesla crash and burn, this is going to be a major hit not only for Nasdaq or S&P, it can lead to major disillusionment with what tech sector really is and what it can and can not do for humanity in general and for US as a country specifically.

buran77 5y ago
It's a very valuable company that's just taken off and for the first time in a long time gives the US an edge in the global auto industry. Shooting it in the wing now, even if it's the legal duty, gives everyone else an advantage. So blind eye it is. Tesla has no reason to crash and burn but without a real or perceived edge over the competition it wouldn't thrive. And the self driving claim is a hefty part of that edge.
- JackPoach 5y ago
  Yeah, but this is a very US-centric view. China is (arguably) far ahead of US both in EV technology in general and Tesla specifically. It's hard to separate personality cult of Elon Musk from Tesla, but for many outside US, there's absolutely nothing special about Tesla except for the valuation part.
  - buran77 5y ago
    I am completely oblivious as to how Tesla is seen in China. But plenty of the hype Tesla generated in Europe some years ago had FSD as a backbone (maybe a bit of ludicrous mode too), it was an easy way to cover generic EV drawbacks. I'm not saying that this is why people bought Teslas, rather that that's the reason people spoke about Teslas. If everywhere you look you see a discussion about how awesome one feature of a product is you're slowly and unconsciously going to start assuming the whole package must be awesome. Tesla not only got "infinite" marketing and PR points by claiming "FSD", they even got money from people who are still waiting for that functionality. Those who expected driver assists are happy. Those who expected the claimed FSD are certainly not. Today with competing companies like Volvo announcing L4 cars in 2022, the generic FSD claims are nowhere nearly as valuable as a few years ago.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > It's a very valuable company that's just taken off and for the first time in a long time gives the US an edge in the global auto industry. Shooting it in the wing now, even if it's the legal duty, gives everyone else an advantage. So blind eye it is. Reminds me of Wirecard, which imploded one year ago. Everyone, from regulation agencies over banks to politics - including Chancellor Merkel and her advisors - wanted Wirecard to succeed at all costs. In the latest hours of Wirecard, after the "we're missing two billion euros" statement, there even was the idea to pump hundreds of millions of euros taxpayer money to prevent its collapse.
  - buran77 5y ago
    The principle of defending your superstars applies everywhere, albeit the US is doing it to a far greater degree compared to others simply because they're in a better position to do it. But Tesla and Wirecard are in no way in the same league. Tesla is actually delivering cars, batteries, building factories, and developing tech. Wirecard on the other hand was a hot air balloon, at least after a point.
    - Pyramus 5y ago
      Having looked at a lot of the issues surrounding Tesla, I would strongly disagree with that statement. I think it's mostly informed by hindsight. While it remains speculative it is certainly possible that Tesla is in the same league as Wirecard, and maybe Enron. People are easily thrown off by the fact that Tesla is successfully delivering a physical product and that the product is excellent in many aspects (driving UX, charger network, software integration, EV evangelism etc). However once you look closer, a whole host of parallels emerge: 'Very aggressive accounting' (non-GAAP, 20% accounts receivables, junior CFO, warranty repairs as goodwill etc), business is not profitable (revenues stem from tax credits not cars), bail out/enrichment of Musk family (SolarCity), securities fraud (funding secured), retaliation against whistleblowers, silencing/threatening critics and journalists, legal record, occupational health violations (injured workers not being treated, Covid), workers at the factories not being allowed to speak to visitors, selling something that doesn't exist (FSD), environmental concerns at Fremont, ... It's a different business than Wirecard for sure, and only time will tell, but the red flags are all there.
xkjkls 5y ago
The behavior of the investors in Tesla is extremely scary. Tesla bulls have organized some large intimidation campaigns against anyone whose tried to question why this company is worth $500 billion.

buran77 5y ago

It's a very valuable company that's just taken off and for the first time in a long time gives the US an edge in the global auto industry. Shooting it in the wing now, even if it's the legal duty, gives everyone else an advantage. So blind eye it is. Tesla has no reason to crash and burn but without a real or perceived edge over the competition it wouldn't thrive. And the self driving claim is a hefty part of that edge.

JackPoach 5y ago
Yeah, but this is a very US-centric view. China is (arguably) far ahead of US both in EV technology in general and Tesla specifically. It's hard to separate personality cult of Elon Musk from Tesla, but for many outside US, there's absolutely nothing special about Tesla except for the valuation part.
- buran77 5y ago
  I am completely oblivious as to how Tesla is seen in China. But plenty of the hype Tesla generated in Europe some years ago had FSD as a backbone (maybe a bit of ludicrous mode too), it was an easy way to cover generic EV drawbacks. I'm not saying that this is why people bought Teslas, rather that that's the reason people spoke about Teslas. If everywhere you look you see a discussion about how awesome one feature of a product is you're slowly and unconsciously going to start assuming the whole package must be awesome. Tesla not only got "infinite" marketing and PR points by claiming "FSD", they even got money from people who are still waiting for that functionality. Those who expected driver assists are happy. Those who expected the claimed FSD are certainly not. Today with competing companies like Volvo announcing L4 cars in 2022, the generic FSD claims are nowhere nearly as valuable as a few years ago.
mschuster91 5y ago
> It's a very valuable company that's just taken off and for the first time in a long time gives the US an edge in the global auto industry. Shooting it in the wing now, even if it's the legal duty, gives everyone else an advantage. So blind eye it is. Reminds me of Wirecard, which imploded one year ago. Everyone, from regulation agencies over banks to politics - including Chancellor Merkel and her advisors - wanted Wirecard to succeed at all costs. In the latest hours of Wirecard, after the "we're missing two billion euros" statement, there even was the idea to pump hundreds of millions of euros taxpayer money to prevent its collapse.
- buran77 5y ago
  The principle of defending your superstars applies everywhere, albeit the US is doing it to a far greater degree compared to others simply because they're in a better position to do it. But Tesla and Wirecard are in no way in the same league. Tesla is actually delivering cars, batteries, building factories, and developing tech. Wirecard on the other hand was a hot air balloon, at least after a point.
  - Pyramus 5y ago
    Having looked at a lot of the issues surrounding Tesla, I would strongly disagree with that statement. I think it's mostly informed by hindsight. While it remains speculative it is certainly possible that Tesla is in the same league as Wirecard, and maybe Enron. People are easily thrown off by the fact that Tesla is successfully delivering a physical product and that the product is excellent in many aspects (driving UX, charger network, software integration, EV evangelism etc). However once you look closer, a whole host of parallels emerge: 'Very aggressive accounting' (non-GAAP, 20% accounts receivables, junior CFO, warranty repairs as goodwill etc), business is not profitable (revenues stem from tax credits not cars), bail out/enrichment of Musk family (SolarCity), securities fraud (funding secured), retaliation against whistleblowers, silencing/threatening critics and journalists, legal record, occupational health violations (injured workers not being treated, Covid), workers at the factories not being allowed to speak to visitors, selling something that doesn't exist (FSD), environmental concerns at Fremont, ... It's a different business than Wirecard for sure, and only time will tell, but the red flags are all there.

xkjkls 5y ago

The behavior of the investors in Tesla is extremely scary. Tesla bulls have organized some large intimidation campaigns against anyone whose tried to question why this company is worth $500 billion.