5 ms·

I think the author is actually mixing two concepts: (a) being in demand. Programming is not of exceptionally high value, but it's in demand and it's going to b

by qsort 5y ago

I think the author is actually mixing two concepts: (a) being in demand. Programming is not of exceptionally high value, but it's in demand and it's going to be in demand for the foreseeable future. Value isn't inherent in the good or service being offered and it doesn't make sense to talk of value as such, it's a function of supply and demand. (b) some careers have more top-heavy rewards than others. A mediocre musician or a mediocre sportsman can expect $0, a mediocre programmer can expect a comfortable wage. Maybe the tails are so fat that the expectation evens out, but the distributions have radically different shapes. It's not "liquidity", it's that you're in a business where if you're not four standard deviations better than the average you're as useless as any random person.

hyperpallium2 5y ago
Price is a function of supply and demand. I used to think programming was of exceptionally high value, like intelligence or life itself, because it could augment your intelligence, by making tools and components. But getting the right concept, ui, design, implementation, debugging and documentation is so much work that it's not worth it unless for a whole commununity, open-source, commercial or internal. I speak as having made a commercially successful tool (and many small personal tools and components). Perhaps all makers - from knappers to geometricians - have had this realization.
- pydry 5y ago
  Outside of commodity goods and services (which programming certainly is not) I don't think there is a straightforward relationship between supply, demand and price.
  - bruce343434 5y ago
    programming is a service: to create a good (software) for a client (maybe your boss)
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    Any programming market, such as Austin, Texas, will see salary offers increase when demand increases more than supply. Unless you are actively renegotiating your pay every year you won't see this as an employed engineer.
- antoniuschan99 5y ago
  That can be said for any profession. Actors or Musicians still have to be supported by roadies, sound people, videographers, editors, etc. Programming is elevated because it automates and scales services that are in the past done by humans. It also spans across many different industries in that the one skill touches on many different parts of our lives. And also, like in the liquidity example he mentioned comparing to creating Korean food, is that technology is insanely accessible now (anything digital really). But also, compared to musicians and actors, they still need to be at a certain place to perform their work (as we saw in the past year online concerts never really panned out).
  - hyperpallium2 5y ago
    Which part of my comment are you replying to? After "price", my main point was that tool makers can make tools, that help them make tools. e.g. metal workers, stoneage knappers (striking stones to shape a blade), wood workers, theorem and lemma makers (including geometry), etc.
    - antoniuschan99 5y ago
      The part where you mentioned getting the right concept, ui, design, implementation, debugging and documentation. Like any craft there's still a supporting cast of skills that helps drive the main function (eg. singers have sound engineers, ghostwriters to focus on the song to the audience, etc. Same with movie making there's the actor but a long supporting list of people around that movie)
topaz0 5y ago
Your (a) is about the difference between use value and exchange value.
- TX0098812 5y ago
  Those are really the same for all practical purposes. Intangible types of value belong in philosophical discussions, not economics.
  - topaz0 5y ago
    You can draw that line around economics if you want, but I'm ultimately more interested in the consequences of economics for human purposes. That necessarily involves considering market value and human values as separate kinds of things. Related of course, but different.
ed_balls 5y ago
> A mediocre musician or a mediocre sportsman can expect $0, It's actually worse than that. If you go to school and invest a lot the expected value is negative.

by qsort 5y ago

hyperpallium2 5y ago

Price is a function of supply and demand. I used to think programming was of exceptionally high value, like intelligence or life itself, because it could augment your intelligence, by making tools and components. But getting the right concept, ui, design, implementation, debugging and documentation is so much work that it's not worth it unless for a whole commununity, open-source, commercial or internal. I speak as having made a commercially successful tool (and many small personal tools and components). Perhaps all makers - from knappers to geometricians - have had this realization.

pydry 5y ago
Outside of commodity goods and services (which programming certainly is not) I don't think there is a straightforward relationship between supply, demand and price.
- bruce343434 5y ago
  programming is a service: to create a good (software) for a client (maybe your boss)
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  Any programming market, such as Austin, Texas, will see salary offers increase when demand increases more than supply. Unless you are actively renegotiating your pay every year you won't see this as an employed engineer.
antoniuschan99 5y ago
That can be said for any profession. Actors or Musicians still have to be supported by roadies, sound people, videographers, editors, etc. Programming is elevated because it automates and scales services that are in the past done by humans. It also spans across many different industries in that the one skill touches on many different parts of our lives. And also, like in the liquidity example he mentioned comparing to creating Korean food, is that technology is insanely accessible now (anything digital really). But also, compared to musicians and actors, they still need to be at a certain place to perform their work (as we saw in the past year online concerts never really panned out).
- hyperpallium2 5y ago
  Which part of my comment are you replying to? After "price", my main point was that tool makers can make tools, that help them make tools. e.g. metal workers, stoneage knappers (striking stones to shape a blade), wood workers, theorem and lemma makers (including geometry), etc.
  - antoniuschan99 5y ago
    The part where you mentioned getting the right concept, ui, design, implementation, debugging and documentation. Like any craft there's still a supporting cast of skills that helps drive the main function (eg. singers have sound engineers, ghostwriters to focus on the song to the audience, etc. Same with movie making there's the actor but a long supporting list of people around that movie)

topaz0 5y ago

Your (a) is about the difference between use value and exchange value.

TX0098812 5y ago
Those are really the same for all practical purposes. Intangible types of value belong in philosophical discussions, not economics.
- topaz0 5y ago
  You can draw that line around economics if you want, but I'm ultimately more interested in the consequences of economics for human purposes. That necessarily involves considering market value and human values as separate kinds of things. Related of course, but different.

ed_balls 5y ago

> A mediocre musician or a mediocre sportsman can expect $0, It's actually worse than that. If you go to school and invest a lot the expected value is negative.