5 ms·

I've seen a lot of these children's books about technical topics. Is there any record of an actual child reading any of them? And, as children do with good book

by vages 5y ago

I've seen a lot of these children's books about technical topics. Is there any record of an actual child reading any of them? And, as children do with good books: reading them more than once? (Excluding children in the author's family.) I have read about 10 of these "children's books about programming" and while I enjoy them myself, I find that they lack most of the things that grab children's attention, such as repetition and visual-only sub-plots. This is not to criticize the use of an illustrated fable as a storytelling device for adults: They're great! It's just sad that we have to frame an illustrated fable as "for children" in order for it to be accepted. I think it says something about how content dictates and narrows the expected presentation format, sometimes to the detriment of clear communication.

Siira 5y ago
Can you list the books?
- vages 5y ago
  Most of the books have been low-key attempts from programmer parents, probably to get their own children into programming. They were posted on different forums, and I have a hard time finding my way back to them. The example that I think illustrates my point best is: http://arthur-johnston.com/hacker_writes_a_childrens_book/ http://arthur-johnston.com/hacker_writes_a_childrens_book/ (which was posted here in 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15879519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15879519) The book works well as entertainment for grown-up programmers: "G is for Garbage Collector/when something's no longer needed/it frees up the memory/so your program is speeded." You can look inside the book on Amazon for more examples. I judge this rhyme as too advanced for any child below 8 that I've read aloud to. Most theories about cognitive development agree with Piaget (1896–1980) in that children have a hard time grasping difficult abstract concepts before the age of 12–13, so there is at least some "scientific backing" to my hunch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_development#Concrete_operational_stage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_development#Concrete... (This is only a hunch though; the children I've read aloud to are all picked from the same group – children of family and friends.) My observation is that children seem to need _lots_ of concrete verbal and visual imagery in order to stay interested. You can also get away with more abstract themes if the actual text is lyrically well-crafted, like Dr. Seuss' books (or André Bjerke's children's rhymes in Norwegian, my mother tongue). The most successful attempts at teaching programming to children that I've seen, seem to give the children a lot of practical tasks they can work on (e.g. the Hello Ruby book series). You also have some programming elements in Minecraft that children could pick up, because the concepts are implemented as concrete objects. All of this makes me suspect that the main audience for these "children's books" teaching programming is adults that already know a fair bit about the subject. And that's completely all right by me, because it gives the books traction and brings the book's readers entertainment. PS: You also have the Javascript/HTML/CSS for babies series, which are only jocularly presented as children's books: https://imgur.com/eOYc8fC https://imgur.com/eOYc8fC
- sireat 5y ago
  Probably the most famous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why%27s_(poignant)_Guide_to_Ruby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why%27s_(poignant)_Guide_to_Ru... Not my cup of tea (loved the current Kafka one) I prefer when books for learning use a consistent art style.
  - yitchelle 5y ago
    While not directly related to tech, this story is great analogy about ping. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_About_Ping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_About_Ping
  - sciurus 5y ago
    I've (rightly) never seen Why's Guide marketed as being "for children" though.
ufoolme 5y ago
My 5yo loves reading the kubernetes book (paperback copy of https://www.cncf.io/the-childrens-illustrated-guide-to-kubernetes/ https://www.cncf.io/the-childrens-illustrated-guide-to-kuber...), I found him reading it by himself the other day I guess it has sort of a plot. I think he likes it mostly because I tell him that’s what I do at work.
- vages 5y ago
  It's got very pretty pictures, so that's very understandable! Have you been able to find out if he understands any of the abstract concepts that are explained, or is he mostly interested in the character interactions?
- newtwilly 5y ago
  Wow this one has quite the vocabulary! Right in the first pages we have "hosting provider", "environment", "OS", "Web Server", etc.

by vages 5y ago

Siira 5y ago

Can you list the books?

vages 5y ago
Most of the books have been low-key attempts from programmer parents, probably to get their own children into programming. They were posted on different forums, and I have a hard time finding my way back to them. The example that I think illustrates my point best is: http://arthur-johnston.com/hacker_writes_a_childrens_book/ http://arthur-johnston.com/hacker_writes_a_childrens_book/ (which was posted here in 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15879519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15879519) The book works well as entertainment for grown-up programmers: "G is for Garbage Collector/when something's no longer needed/it frees up the memory/so your program is speeded." You can look inside the book on Amazon for more examples. I judge this rhyme as too advanced for any child below 8 that I've read aloud to. Most theories about cognitive development agree with Piaget (1896–1980) in that children have a hard time grasping difficult abstract concepts before the age of 12–13, so there is at least some "scientific backing" to my hunch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_development#Concrete_operational_stage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_development#Concrete... (This is only a hunch though; the children I've read aloud to are all picked from the same group – children of family and friends.) My observation is that children seem to need _lots_ of concrete verbal and visual imagery in order to stay interested. You can also get away with more abstract themes if the actual text is lyrically well-crafted, like Dr. Seuss' books (or André Bjerke's children's rhymes in Norwegian, my mother tongue). The most successful attempts at teaching programming to children that I've seen, seem to give the children a lot of practical tasks they can work on (e.g. the Hello Ruby book series). You also have some programming elements in Minecraft that children could pick up, because the concepts are implemented as concrete objects. All of this makes me suspect that the main audience for these "children's books" teaching programming is adults that already know a fair bit about the subject. And that's completely all right by me, because it gives the books traction and brings the book's readers entertainment. PS: You also have the Javascript/HTML/CSS for babies series, which are only jocularly presented as children's books: https://imgur.com/eOYc8fC https://imgur.com/eOYc8fC
sireat 5y ago
Probably the most famous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why%27s_(poignant)_Guide_to_Ruby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why%27s_(poignant)_Guide_to_Ru... Not my cup of tea (loved the current Kafka one) I prefer when books for learning use a consistent art style.
- yitchelle 5y ago
  While not directly related to tech, this story is great analogy about ping. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_About_Ping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_About_Ping
- sciurus 5y ago
  I've (rightly) never seen Why's Guide marketed as being "for children" though.

ufoolme 5y ago

My 5yo loves reading the kubernetes book (paperback copy of https://www.cncf.io/the-childrens-illustrated-guide-to-kubernetes/ https://www.cncf.io/the-childrens-illustrated-guide-to-kuber...), I found him reading it by himself the other day I guess it has sort of a plot. I think he likes it mostly because I tell him that’s what I do at work.

vages 5y ago
It's got very pretty pictures, so that's very understandable! Have you been able to find out if he understands any of the abstract concepts that are explained, or is he mostly interested in the character interactions?
newtwilly 5y ago
Wow this one has quite the vocabulary! Right in the first pages we have "hosting provider", "environment", "OS", "Web Server", etc.