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On my particular media diet I am given the impression that there is an overwhelming consensus around "common sense" measures such as waiting periods and backgro

On my particular media diet I am given the impression that there is an overwhelming consensus around "common sense" measures such as waiting periods and background checks, which aren't even things that seem to be making it into federal law at any urgency. So, is this legislation coming from the fringes, stoking flames where there isn't a fire, or is there just a completely different perspective on these matters in Missouri that someone here could enlighten me on?

busymom0 5y ago
> "common sense" measures such as waiting periods and background checks There already is background checks in place. Anti-gunners and media who have never gone through it keep spouting that lie. Waiting periods do the exact opposite - why would anyone want those who need a gun for self defence to wait a month to be able to buy it? Waiting periods also are getting exploited by certain anti-gun states to prevent gun purchases. If you are lets say a woman retiring home from school late at night and need one for self defence because you saw someone following you, you want to wait a month to be able to buy it?
- sverhagen 5y ago
  Earnest follow-up question: are they really targeting a month? I thought I'd previously heard three days or so. How would you feel if it were three days? Some person retiring home late may run into a scare that makes them want to have a gun for the other night, I suppose, but isn't that offset by wanting to keep people with mental health issues from buying guns instantly? (As in: any rash decisions involving guns seem scary?)
  - busymom0 5y ago
    Not having a gun doesn't stop suicides. Even though vast majority of the gun related deaths are suicides (gang violence is the next), a delay in obtaining a gun to commit it won't stop the suicide. There are plenty of other ways. I immigrated from a country with a major suicide problem of youngsters (because of strict education competition parenting) and almost none of the suicides occur via guns. Suicide is actually the most common cause of death for age 15-39. Poisoning (33%), hanging (26%) and self-immolation (9%) were the primary methods used to die by suicide in 2012. Japan is another country with this problem. Not letting people buy a gun just to prevent suicide is the wrong approach. The mental health problem needs to be addressed separately. New Jersey is an example of the 30 day delay and often those 30 days turn into 7-8 months. I know several people there who went through this last year when the riots were happening and they wanted to purchase a firearm for the first time only to realize how strict the laws were. Ironic enough, they had themselves voted in these laws which were now causing them the problems. This changed the minds of at least 10 friends of mine on gun control. Tim Pool, popular YouTuber went from anti-2A to SUPER-PRO 2A last year and he's from New Jersey and went through this process too. Here's forums of people complaining about this. You can find several similar examples: https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/97756-pistol-permit-delay/ https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/97756-pis... https://bearingarms.com/staff-ba/2021/03/26/new-jersey-gun-permits-face-new-legal-challenge-n42646 https://bearingarms.com/staff-ba/2021/03/26/new-jersey-gun-p... Thanks to all this, gun sales are through the roof. > 10 million people have bought guns for the first time since the beginning of 2020 https://www.forbes.com/sites/aaronsmith/2021/06/17/smith--wesson-says-fy-gun-sales-doubled-to-more-than-1-billion https://www.forbes.com/sites/aaronsmith/2021/06/17/smith--we... Btw, I am Canadian so I wish people in America actually appreciated how good they have it there when it comes to freedoms. You can't ban somebody into being a good person. If they can't get a gun they will find something else. Couple years ago, one of my friends here in Canada was being followed back home by someone. Unfortunately, even pepper sprays aren't allowed in Canada. So in case she gets attacked, she would be defenceless. Same with if you have a wife/daughter/elderly/handicapped person in your household. The best way to defend yourself in such situations is to get a firearm and train often. Delays in obtaining one doesn't help.
pseudo0 5y ago
The broader political context is that Biden campaigned on adding AR-15s to the NFA, a law designed to keep firearms out of the hands of the plebs [0], nominated an ATF director who wants to ban AR-15s entirely [1], and has pushed controversial red-flag laws that allow for the seizure of firearms without the accused having any right to challenge the order prior to the property seizure being executed [2]. AR-15s are owned by millions of Americans, mostly Republicans, for lawful purposes such as hunting and target shooting. Rifles of all types are used in only around 2% of all homicides [3], so this would have a very minimal impact on Biden's stated goal of reducing gun violence, but would significantly affect legal gun owners. It's entirely unsurprising that this has prompted a backlash by red states, which are gearing up for a political and legal fight over firearms for the next few years. [0] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/16/biden-gun-control-poverty/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/16/biden-gun-... [1] - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/05/26/david-chipman-bidens-nominee-head-atf-supports-ar-15-rifle-ban/7456028002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/05/26/davi... [2] - https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/06/biden-doj-proposes-new-pistol-brace-rule-and-model-red-flag-gun-confiscation-legislation/ https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/06/biden-doj-proposes-... [3] - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-...
- beerandt 5y ago
  Red flag laws should scare the hell out of everyone, regardless of your thoughts on gun rights. Especially since Obamacare mandated electronic medical records.

busymom0 5y ago

> "common sense" measures such as waiting periods and background checks There already is background checks in place. Anti-gunners and media who have never gone through it keep spouting that lie. Waiting periods do the exact opposite - why would anyone want those who need a gun for self defence to wait a month to be able to buy it? Waiting periods also are getting exploited by certain anti-gun states to prevent gun purchases. If you are lets say a woman retiring home from school late at night and need one for self defence because you saw someone following you, you want to wait a month to be able to buy it?

sverhagen 5y ago
Earnest follow-up question: are they really targeting a month? I thought I'd previously heard three days or so. How would you feel if it were three days? Some person retiring home late may run into a scare that makes them want to have a gun for the other night, I suppose, but isn't that offset by wanting to keep people with mental health issues from buying guns instantly? (As in: any rash decisions involving guns seem scary?)
- busymom0 5y ago
  Not having a gun doesn't stop suicides. Even though vast majority of the gun related deaths are suicides (gang violence is the next), a delay in obtaining a gun to commit it won't stop the suicide. There are plenty of other ways. I immigrated from a country with a major suicide problem of youngsters (because of strict education competition parenting) and almost none of the suicides occur via guns. Suicide is actually the most common cause of death for age 15-39. Poisoning (33%), hanging (26%) and self-immolation (9%) were the primary methods used to die by suicide in 2012. Japan is another country with this problem. Not letting people buy a gun just to prevent suicide is the wrong approach. The mental health problem needs to be addressed separately. New Jersey is an example of the 30 day delay and often those 30 days turn into 7-8 months. I know several people there who went through this last year when the riots were happening and they wanted to purchase a firearm for the first time only to realize how strict the laws were. Ironic enough, they had themselves voted in these laws which were now causing them the problems. This changed the minds of at least 10 friends of mine on gun control. Tim Pool, popular YouTuber went from anti-2A to SUPER-PRO 2A last year and he's from New Jersey and went through this process too. Here's forums of people complaining about this. You can find several similar examples: https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/97756-pistol-permit-delay/ https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/97756-pis... https://bearingarms.com/staff-ba/2021/03/26/new-jersey-gun-permits-face-new-legal-challenge-n42646 https://bearingarms.com/staff-ba/2021/03/26/new-jersey-gun-p... Thanks to all this, gun sales are through the roof. > 10 million people have bought guns for the first time since the beginning of 2020 https://www.forbes.com/sites/aaronsmith/2021/06/17/smith--wesson-says-fy-gun-sales-doubled-to-more-than-1-billion https://www.forbes.com/sites/aaronsmith/2021/06/17/smith--we... Btw, I am Canadian so I wish people in America actually appreciated how good they have it there when it comes to freedoms. You can't ban somebody into being a good person. If they can't get a gun they will find something else. Couple years ago, one of my friends here in Canada was being followed back home by someone. Unfortunately, even pepper sprays aren't allowed in Canada. So in case she gets attacked, she would be defenceless. Same with if you have a wife/daughter/elderly/handicapped person in your household. The best way to defend yourself in such situations is to get a firearm and train often. Delays in obtaining one doesn't help.

pseudo0 5y ago

The broader political context is that Biden campaigned on adding AR-15s to the NFA, a law designed to keep firearms out of the hands of the plebs [0], nominated an ATF director who wants to ban AR-15s entirely [1], and has pushed controversial red-flag laws that allow for the seizure of firearms without the accused having any right to challenge the order prior to the property seizure being executed [2]. AR-15s are owned by millions of Americans, mostly Republicans, for lawful purposes such as hunting and target shooting. Rifles of all types are used in only around 2% of all homicides [3], so this would have a very minimal impact on Biden's stated goal of reducing gun violence, but would significantly affect legal gun owners. It's entirely unsurprising that this has prompted a backlash by red states, which are gearing up for a political and legal fight over firearms for the next few years. [0] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/16/biden-gun-control-poverty/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/16/biden-gun-... [1] - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/05/26/david-chipman-bidens-nominee-head-atf-supports-ar-15-rifle-ban/7456028002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/05/26/davi... [2] - https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/06/biden-doj-proposes-new-pistol-brace-rule-and-model-red-flag-gun-confiscation-legislation/ https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/06/biden-doj-proposes-... [3] - https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

beerandt 5y ago
Red flag laws should scare the hell out of everyone, regardless of your thoughts on gun rights. Especially since Obamacare mandated electronic medical records.