7 ms·

And China's industry has the world by the balls, so there's not much that can be done from an external perspective to prevent this. That said, I'm not sure many

And China's industry has the world by the balls, so there's not much that can be done from an external perspective to prevent this. That said, I'm not sure many nations would do anything even if China didn't have leverage over them.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago
Hong Kong’s fate was sealed in 1984 when the UK agreed to return it to China. And that was when China was far weaker than now, and could have been confronted at far less cost. Instead, the West got played, transferring massive capital and know-how to China while convincing themselves that economic integration would inevitably lead to greater political freedom.
- baby 5y ago
  This is true. Sometimes I wonder if the UK thought HK would become a trojan horse. A symbol of good living standards and democracy. That was ignoring thousands of years of wars for unification that built China. It is built on blood and blood will continue to be shed until the whole of China is united. This is what reading books and watching movies will tell you.
  - techrat 5y ago
    All you have to do is look at who was in power in 1984. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_1984_British_incumbents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_1984_British_incumbent... (TLDR: Conservatives.)
  - sangnoir 5y ago
    > Sometimes I wonder if the UK thought HK would become a trojan horse You may be in luck - a whole bunch of UK documents and letters from the Thatcher era were unclassified recently. You can search the archive for any mention of "Hong Kong"[1], or any other keyword of interest 1. https://www.margaretthatcher.org/search?dt=0&w=hong+kong&searchtype=phrase&t=0&starty=&startm=&startd=&endy=&endm=&endd=&onedayy=&onedaym=&onedayd=&doctype%5B%5D=archive https://www.margaretthatcher.org/search?dt=0&w=hong+kong&sea...
eloff 5y ago
The best one can do is what some of the commonwealth countries, led by the UK, are doing by offering Hong Kong citizens an accelerated path to immigration. All you can do when a ship sinks is find a life raft.
- pooper 5y ago
  > All you can do when a ship sinks is find a life raft. And yet somehow the "left" and the "right" unite in opposition any time I say something even remotely alluding to a way out for any Palestinian who wants to get out of the middle east. Left and Right are in quotes because they are pretty much the same people.
  - stanislavb 5y ago
    And you can't link HK being a Commonwealth colony up until recently... somehow? I don't want to say that Palestinian people shouldn't be helped. What I want to say is that it's more or less obvious why the UK is more eager to help HK.
    - alisonatwork 5y ago
      I think the British bear some responsibility for the current situation in Israel/Palestine as well, given the region was a British mandate between the wars. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
      - crossroadsguy 5y ago
        Is there anywhere that British left from and didn’t ensure an everlasting rift in the region?
        tru3_power 5y ago
        Lol - this is colonialism in general right?
stanislavb 5y ago
We should all stop buying products made in China as much as possible. At least, until the current communist gov is in charge.
- techrat 5y ago
  So, we buy nothing? Even the domestic products basically say "Assembled in the USA" ( from parts made in China) But the sad reality is that the raw materials needed for a lot of the things we take for granted in everyday life... require an astounding amount of environmental destruction, something China is still more than happy to do. I'm not saying we need to loosen environmental laws in the States, we need to instead completely overhaul the way we manufacture things to take as much advantage of recycling as we possibly can. And nobody cares to do that. Why would we? It's cheaper in China, after all.
  - stanislavb 5y ago
    Just try. You will be surprised how often (not always) there's an alternative. Then, even if you pay a bit more, in most cases you'll be getting better quality too.
    - techrat 5y ago
      Find me a smartphone that is made in the US with no Chinese parts, then. Or anything that goes into a laptop. Or desktop. Those are the primary components/products that China needs to destructively mine and process raw materials for. Until we recycle electronics as a standard instead of a "we care about being Green(tm)" gesture... manufacturing is always going to go where it's cheapest.
      - vorpalhex 5y ago
        https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/ https://www.falcon-nw.com/falcon/craftsmanship https://www.falcon-nw.com/falcon/craftsmanship I believe Digital Storm is also using primarily US components but can't find it on their site. Intel has several US foundries, and some ARM foundries are in the US as well.
tablespoon 5y ago
> And China's industry has the world by the balls, so there's not much that can be done from an external perspective to prevent this. That said, I'm not sure many nations would do anything even if China didn't have leverage over them. Free trade and free markets, ain't they the best? Like Marx said: selling rope the the person who plans to hang you is a good business decision.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago

Hong Kong’s fate was sealed in 1984 when the UK agreed to return it to China. And that was when China was far weaker than now, and could have been confronted at far less cost. Instead, the West got played, transferring massive capital and know-how to China while convincing themselves that economic integration would inevitably lead to greater political freedom.

baby 5y ago
This is true. Sometimes I wonder if the UK thought HK would become a trojan horse. A symbol of good living standards and democracy. That was ignoring thousands of years of wars for unification that built China. It is built on blood and blood will continue to be shed until the whole of China is united. This is what reading books and watching movies will tell you.
- techrat 5y ago
  All you have to do is look at who was in power in 1984. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_1984_British_incumbents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_1984_British_incumbent... (TLDR: Conservatives.)
- sangnoir 5y ago
  > Sometimes I wonder if the UK thought HK would become a trojan horse You may be in luck - a whole bunch of UK documents and letters from the Thatcher era were unclassified recently. You can search the archive for any mention of "Hong Kong"[1], or any other keyword of interest 1. https://www.margaretthatcher.org/search?dt=0&w=hong+kong&searchtype=phrase&t=0&starty=&startm=&startd=&endy=&endm=&endd=&onedayy=&onedaym=&onedayd=&doctype%5B%5D=archive https://www.margaretthatcher.org/search?dt=0&w=hong+kong&sea...

eloff 5y ago

The best one can do is what some of the commonwealth countries, led by the UK, are doing by offering Hong Kong citizens an accelerated path to immigration. All you can do when a ship sinks is find a life raft.

pooper 5y ago
> All you can do when a ship sinks is find a life raft. And yet somehow the "left" and the "right" unite in opposition any time I say something even remotely alluding to a way out for any Palestinian who wants to get out of the middle east. Left and Right are in quotes because they are pretty much the same people.
- stanislavb 5y ago
  And you can't link HK being a Commonwealth colony up until recently... somehow? I don't want to say that Palestinian people shouldn't be helped. What I want to say is that it's more or less obvious why the UK is more eager to help HK.
  - alisonatwork 5y ago
    I think the British bear some responsibility for the current situation in Israel/Palestine as well, given the region was a British mandate between the wars. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
    - crossroadsguy 5y ago
      Is there anywhere that British left from and didn’t ensure an everlasting rift in the region?
      - tru3_power 5y ago
        Lol - this is colonialism in general right?

stanislavb 5y ago

We should all stop buying products made in China as much as possible. At least, until the current communist gov is in charge.

techrat 5y ago
So, we buy nothing? Even the domestic products basically say "Assembled in the USA" ( from parts made in China) But the sad reality is that the raw materials needed for a lot of the things we take for granted in everyday life... require an astounding amount of environmental destruction, something China is still more than happy to do. I'm not saying we need to loosen environmental laws in the States, we need to instead completely overhaul the way we manufacture things to take as much advantage of recycling as we possibly can. And nobody cares to do that. Why would we? It's cheaper in China, after all.
- stanislavb 5y ago
  Just try. You will be surprised how often (not always) there's an alternative. Then, even if you pay a bit more, in most cases you'll be getting better quality too.
  - techrat 5y ago
    Find me a smartphone that is made in the US with no Chinese parts, then. Or anything that goes into a laptop. Or desktop. Those are the primary components/products that China needs to destructively mine and process raw materials for. Until we recycle electronics as a standard instead of a "we care about being Green(tm)" gesture... manufacturing is always going to go where it's cheapest.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/ https://www.falcon-nw.com/falcon/craftsmanship https://www.falcon-nw.com/falcon/craftsmanship I believe Digital Storm is also using primarily US components but can't find it on their site. Intel has several US foundries, and some ARM foundries are in the US as well.

tablespoon 5y ago

> And China's industry has the world by the balls, so there's not much that can be done from an external perspective to prevent this. That said, I'm not sure many nations would do anything even if China didn't have leverage over them. Free trade and free markets, ain't they the best? Like Marx said: selling rope the the person who plans to hang you is a good business decision.