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If this isn't a real apology then what would you say a real apology looks like? Of the many public apologies I've read in the past this reads like an honest, g

If this isn't a real apology then what would you say a real apology looks like? Of the many public apologies I've read in the past this reads like an honest, genuine one. He admitted guilt, explained what he did wrong and did not try to justify it, and clearly stated that he apologizes. What's missing?

williamsmj 5y ago
I have no doubt it is honest, but it's not a good apology. He barely remembers the specific incident (by his own admission). That's not his fault, but it makes the apology pretty much meaningless. He seems to assume he was a bit of a grumpy-puss that day, and that "jaded" their subsequent interactions. This is incredibly glib and diminishes the specific incident. But more importantly, he never admits to being a bully. The original post gives this incident as an example of a pattern of abusive behavior. He sidesteps that entirely.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  What's a bully? Someone who loses their temper? Someone who's scary and makes enemies more easily than friends? I think a bully is someone who uses intimidation to get their way, if someone intimidates random bystanders what they have is a need to work on their emotional self-control.
  - neolog 5y ago
    It's more like someone who habitually uses power in a mean way.
    - whatshisface 5y ago
      There's a difference between someone who is naturally mean and happens to be in power and someone that uses meanness to get power.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - neolog 5y ago
        The point is if you're in power it's more important to not behave badly than if you're not in power. It's also easier in some ways, because you can get help from experienced outsiders who have a stake in your success and you can afford to experiment with improvement methods without getting fired. There are ways in which it's harder, such as if employees are too scared to tell you when you're being nasty.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - newbie789 5y ago
        That’s true. Which of the two examples would you categorize as a “bully”?
keymone 5y ago
the blog post that apology is linking to says that it’s only one of many incidents that the victim doesn’t want to enumerate, but the apology sounded like it only considered that one incident, like it’s the only one that the bully could recall (and not without help). felt pretty shallow.
latortuga 5y ago
It's missing the forest for the trees. The original complaint was about a pattern of abuse whereas this post addresses a single instance of abuse. If someone hits you 100 times and issues you an apology for 1 of the times because somebody else saw him do it and thought it looked mean, does that absolve him of the other 99, which weren't mentioned in the apology? Taking real responsibility for a pattern of abuse looks a lot different and will require some self-reflection and real steps toward justice.
admash 5y ago
Six parts to a real apology: Expression of regret. "I am truly sorry." - Check. Explanation of what went wrong. "I must have directed angry words at you, who clearly had nothing to do with how the day had gone." - This is weaselly. "I must have...", not "I did". Acknowledgment of responsibility. " I clearly forget that I am the oldest and most experienced—and I should act this way in a post-mortem conversation." - Weaselly. Whether he was oldest and most experienced or not, no one should behave this way. And rather than taking the responsibility, it's chalked up to forgetfulness. Declaration of repentance. - Nothing here. No commitment to change. No stated intention for better emotional management. Offer of repair. - "Finally, as you surely recall, I encouraged you throughout 2019, in person and in email, to join the Racket leadership;" In the absence of any kind of effort or commitment to change, this would not be received as a positive offer. But rather an extension of exposure to an abusive individual. Not much of a repair. Request for forgiveness. - Nothing here either.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  Request for forgiveness. - Nothing here either. Well, I personally think asking for forgiveness is manipulative and shitty behavior. An apology should be about doing right by someone you wronged, not closing with "And last but not least: What's in it for me?!" If they forgive you, coolios. Though it might take them more than five minutes just like it took apparently months for this apology to happen, so they don't need to promptly give you a fucking pat on the head like we give five year olds a cookie to reward desired behavior or some crap.
  - admash 5y ago
    The request for forgiveness is indicative of the desire to restore the relationship, as the other steps can be fulfilled in the absence of that desire. The capacity of such a request to be manipulative is dependent on first, the sincerity of the desire, and second, on the degree to which the injured party feels compelled to forgive. We do a disservice in the extent that we inculcate an expectation that a request for forgiveness must be granted, as coerced or compelled forgiveness is not meaningful as it does not represent a restoration of the relationship that was damaged.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

williamsmj 5y ago

I have no doubt it is honest, but it's not a good apology. He barely remembers the specific incident (by his own admission). That's not his fault, but it makes the apology pretty much meaningless. He seems to assume he was a bit of a grumpy-puss that day, and that "jaded" their subsequent interactions. This is incredibly glib and diminishes the specific incident. But more importantly, he never admits to being a bully. The original post gives this incident as an example of a pattern of abusive behavior. He sidesteps that entirely.

whatshisface 5y ago
What's a bully? Someone who loses their temper? Someone who's scary and makes enemies more easily than friends? I think a bully is someone who uses intimidation to get their way, if someone intimidates random bystanders what they have is a need to work on their emotional self-control.
- neolog 5y ago
  It's more like someone who habitually uses power in a mean way.
  - whatshisface 5y ago
    There's a difference between someone who is naturally mean and happens to be in power and someone that uses meanness to get power.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - neolog 5y ago
      The point is if you're in power it's more important to not behave badly than if you're not in power. It's also easier in some ways, because you can get help from experienced outsiders who have a stake in your success and you can afford to experiment with improvement methods without getting fired. There are ways in which it's harder, such as if employees are too scared to tell you when you're being nasty.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - newbie789 5y ago
      That’s true. Which of the two examples would you categorize as a “bully”?

keymone 5y ago

the blog post that apology is linking to says that it’s only one of many incidents that the victim doesn’t want to enumerate, but the apology sounded like it only considered that one incident, like it’s the only one that the bully could recall (and not without help). felt pretty shallow.

latortuga 5y ago

It's missing the forest for the trees. The original complaint was about a pattern of abuse whereas this post addresses a single instance of abuse. If someone hits you 100 times and issues you an apology for 1 of the times because somebody else saw him do it and thought it looked mean, does that absolve him of the other 99, which weren't mentioned in the apology? Taking real responsibility for a pattern of abuse looks a lot different and will require some self-reflection and real steps toward justice.

admash 5y ago

Six parts to a real apology: Expression of regret. "I am truly sorry." - Check. Explanation of what went wrong. "I must have directed angry words at you, who clearly had nothing to do with how the day had gone." - This is weaselly. "I must have...", not "I did". Acknowledgment of responsibility. " I clearly forget that I am the oldest and most experienced—and I should act this way in a post-mortem conversation." - Weaselly. Whether he was oldest and most experienced or not, no one should behave this way. And rather than taking the responsibility, it's chalked up to forgetfulness. Declaration of repentance. - Nothing here. No commitment to change. No stated intention for better emotional management. Offer of repair. - "Finally, as you surely recall, I encouraged you throughout 2019, in person and in email, to join the Racket leadership;" In the absence of any kind of effort or commitment to change, this would not be received as a positive offer. But rather an extension of exposure to an abusive individual. Not much of a repair. Request for forgiveness. - Nothing here either.

DoreenMichele 5y ago
Request for forgiveness. - Nothing here either. Well, I personally think asking for forgiveness is manipulative and shitty behavior. An apology should be about doing right by someone you wronged, not closing with "And last but not least: What's in it for me?!" If they forgive you, coolios. Though it might take them more than five minutes just like it took apparently months for this apology to happen, so they don't need to promptly give you a fucking pat on the head like we give five year olds a cookie to reward desired behavior or some crap.
- admash 5y ago
  The request for forgiveness is indicative of the desire to restore the relationship, as the other steps can be fulfilled in the absence of that desire. The capacity of such a request to be manipulative is dependent on first, the sincerity of the desire, and second, on the degree to which the injured party feels compelled to forgive. We do a disservice in the extent that we inculcate an expectation that a request for forgiveness must be granted, as coerced or compelled forgiveness is not meaningful as it does not represent a restoration of the relationship that was damaged.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]