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I think you're missing the point. Let me be concrete. I'm diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Sometimes I feel axnious and euphoric, other times depressed and let

I think you're missing the point. Let me be concrete. I'm diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Sometimes I feel axnious and euphoric, other times depressed and lethargic, both at extremes noticably deviant from the average person. This has caused all sorts of turbulence and distress in my personal and academic life. Being diagnosed allowed me access to therapy and prescriptions. There exist plenty of people who oscillate between distinctively high and low moods, but have never found themselves in serious distress because of it. Thus, they have not been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Whether or not they "are bipolar" is a subjective question that mainstream psychiatry doesn't seem to have an opinion on.

thaumasiotes 5y ago
So when you find a person whose highs are higher than yours, and whose lows are lower than yours, and whose life is better than yours, that person doesn't have bipolar disorder, because they're not experiencing problems. Which makes the idea of "bipolar disorder" meaningless. That person demonstrates that your problems are not caused by bipolar disorder. But the disorder is defined by you having problems, even though the problems come from somewhere else.
- kdmccormick 5y ago
  > whose life is better than yours, that person doesn't have bipolar disorder, because they're not experiencing problems Your argument seems to hinge on this idea that a good life => no distress, which, if you've interacted with anyone diagnosed with a mental disorder, is obviously not true. My life is great. If I didn't take a mood stabilizer, it'd probably still be good, but not as good. Regardless, my mood swings can negatively affect me and those around me. If one day I reach a point where I can live without meds or therapy and reap no negative consequences, then yes, it would be fair at that point to say that I no longer had bipolar disorder. > That person demonstrates that your problems are not caused by bipolar disorder. But the disorder is defined by you having problems, even though the problems come from somewhere else. Bingo. My symptoms (mood swings) + my problems ARE the cause my bipolar disorder diagnosis. Until I had problems, I had no disorder. What causes the mood swings, then? Genetics, upbringing, life experiences, diet, idk. Nobody knows for sure. It's an active area of research, but there is no one known cause. For all we know, there may be five independent and unrelated risk factors that lead to someone developing bipolar disorder. It's like you get it, but you're still dismissing it for some reason. I'm curious what ulterior point you're trying to make.
- canjobear 5y ago
  Mental disorders are an interaction of a person's characteristics and the environment they are in. That doesn't make them meaningless.
SerLava 5y ago
But also if you have schizophrenia, but all the people around you -for some reason- have chosen you at random to aggressively reward your schizophrenia and lavish you while also threatening that if the illusions stop, they will kill you, then schizophrenia really isn't a problem, in fact it's the best thing that ever happened to you. Saves your life every day. But it's still a thing. Maybe you can't refer to it as a disorder, but you are hallucinating stuff. It's a set of material facts about your mental state. Some of Donald Trump's various disorders have objectively rewarded him, generously. But he has those conditions. He doesn't not have narcissism just because his narcissism is good for his bottom line. I think the issue is that medical criteria are functional- what should doctors do about this. If it's not even bad, they shouldn't do anything! And this gets translated as "nothing is there to treat" but shouldn't be translated as "nothing is there to notice"

thaumasiotes 5y ago

So when you find a person whose highs are higher than yours, and whose lows are lower than yours, and whose life is better than yours, that person doesn't have bipolar disorder, because they're not experiencing problems. Which makes the idea of "bipolar disorder" meaningless. That person demonstrates that your problems are not caused by bipolar disorder. But the disorder is defined by you having problems, even though the problems come from somewhere else.

kdmccormick 5y ago
> whose life is better than yours, that person doesn't have bipolar disorder, because they're not experiencing problems Your argument seems to hinge on this idea that a good life => no distress, which, if you've interacted with anyone diagnosed with a mental disorder, is obviously not true. My life is great. If I didn't take a mood stabilizer, it'd probably still be good, but not as good. Regardless, my mood swings can negatively affect me and those around me. If one day I reach a point where I can live without meds or therapy and reap no negative consequences, then yes, it would be fair at that point to say that I no longer had bipolar disorder. > That person demonstrates that your problems are not caused by bipolar disorder. But the disorder is defined by you having problems, even though the problems come from somewhere else. Bingo. My symptoms (mood swings) + my problems ARE the cause my bipolar disorder diagnosis. Until I had problems, I had no disorder. What causes the mood swings, then? Genetics, upbringing, life experiences, diet, idk. Nobody knows for sure. It's an active area of research, but there is no one known cause. For all we know, there may be five independent and unrelated risk factors that lead to someone developing bipolar disorder. It's like you get it, but you're still dismissing it for some reason. I'm curious what ulterior point you're trying to make.
canjobear 5y ago
Mental disorders are an interaction of a person's characteristics and the environment they are in. That doesn't make them meaningless.

SerLava 5y ago

But also if you have schizophrenia, but all the people around you -for some reason- have chosen you at random to aggressively reward your schizophrenia and lavish you while also threatening that if the illusions stop, they will kill you, then schizophrenia really isn't a problem, in fact it's the best thing that ever happened to you. Saves your life every day. But it's still a thing. Maybe you can't refer to it as a disorder, but you are hallucinating stuff. It's a set of material facts about your mental state. Some of Donald Trump's various disorders have objectively rewarded him, generously. But he has those conditions. He doesn't not have narcissism just because his narcissism is good for his bottom line. I think the issue is that medical criteria are functional- what should doctors do about this. If it's not even bad, they shouldn't do anything! And this gets translated as "nothing is there to treat" but shouldn't be translated as "nothing is there to notice"