5 ms·

Ageing process is unstoppable, finds unprecedented study

27 points by jensgk 5y ago

commandlinefan 5y ago
The article doesn't seem to say that a "cure" for aging is impossible, just that we shouldn't assume that because people have been living for longer and longer, that doesn't mean that there's no (current) upper limit.
- kakadzhun 5y ago
  I've always wondered whether there is an upper limit to mental endurance regarding the will to live, e.g. would you grow tired of life after a certain point? What if you were truly immortal, wouldn't you be driven mad soon enough?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - spiralx 5y ago
    I presume that given effective physical and mental immortality you'd see relatively few people hit 1,000 years simply because a lot of people would run out of meaningful things to do before then, and we don't tend to do well in that situation. Statistically if I remember the half-life of people dying from random accidents is somewhere around 300-500 years, although presumably the level of technology required to completely cure aging would presumably make that number larger.
    - Aerroon 5y ago
      Even if you could live forever, you'd probably still feel that you don't have enough time. There are so many amazing things in the world and more are created every day. Even if you have an eternity, it's not enough, because you still only have 24 hours in a day and 365 days in a year.
      - jwdunne 5y ago
        Time would feel faster too. We perceive time moving faster as we age. Apparently, it’s because our perception of time is relative. At 5 years old, 1 year feels like a long time because it’s 20% of our lives. But 1 year at 30 years old is a much smaller fraction.
        Aerroon 5y ago
        I used to think that too, but nowadays I prescribe more to the idea that the perception of time is more related to how many new and unique experiences you have. As a kid everything is new and exciting, but as an adult you get stuck in a routine where things just blend together.
    - nyokodo 5y ago
      > I presume that given effective physical and mental immortality you'd see relatively few people hit 1,000 years simply because a lot of people would run out of meaningful things to do before then, and we don't tend to do well in that situation. Given an indefinite amount of time the probability of dying by murder, suicide, neglect, natural disaster, or the heat death of the universe trend towards 100%. Even digital or biological copies suffer from the same probability, and aren’t true immortality anyway. The talk of literal immortality “in this world” is so improbable it’s ridiculous and smacks of desperation.
    - jobigoud 5y ago
      > Statistically if I remember the half-life of people dying from random accidents is somewhere around 300-500 years I was intriguided by this so tried to find more. I found this simulator of death by unnatural causes. They estimate the life expectancy (in the USA) to 8938 years. You can also re run the simulation. Would love to see this for various countries. https://polstats.com/#!/life https://polstats.com/#!/life
      - spiralx 5y ago
        That's a far more reassuring figure lol, thanks for the link!
  - benlivengood 5y ago
    > What if you were truly immortal, wouldn't you be driven mad soon enough? Driven mad by sunshine in nature, good friends, good food, exploration, good books and other media, working towards a goal, and meeting new people? Quality of life is the biggest determinant, and modern society being planned around aging and death is the second in the idea that people would not enjoy immortality. Of course deathly ill people would not enjoy immortality; people already sign DNR orders today to mitigate that lack of quality of life. Healthy people of any age generally enjoy life.
canada_dry 5y ago
Link with much better coverage of the study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-23894-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-23894-3
chrispeel 5y ago
I'm not certain that the article really does show that the "Ageing process is unstoppable" which is the title of the Guardian article. The title on MedicalXpress article is "We aren't living longer: Our improved lifespan is the result of not dying young" which seems to fit the study better https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-06-longer-lifespan-result-dying-young.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-06-longer-lifespan-resul...
0_gravitas 5y ago
"Study proves a negative!"
nikolay 5y ago
Everything dies - even stars do. So, who in their right mind will believe we can outlive the universe? It's all a matter of slowing down aging, not reversing it or stopping. Memento mori!

27 points by jensgk 5y ago

The article doesn't seem to say that a "cure" for aging is impossible, just that we shouldn't assume that because people have been living for longer and longer, that doesn't mean that there's no (current) upper limit.

kakadzhun 5y ago
I've always wondered whether there is an upper limit to mental endurance regarding the will to live, e.g. would you grow tired of life after a certain point? What if you were truly immortal, wouldn't you be driven mad soon enough?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- spiralx 5y ago
  I presume that given effective physical and mental immortality you'd see relatively few people hit 1,000 years simply because a lot of people would run out of meaningful things to do before then, and we don't tend to do well in that situation. Statistically if I remember the half-life of people dying from random accidents is somewhere around 300-500 years, although presumably the level of technology required to completely cure aging would presumably make that number larger.
  - Aerroon 5y ago
    Even if you could live forever, you'd probably still feel that you don't have enough time. There are so many amazing things in the world and more are created every day. Even if you have an eternity, it's not enough, because you still only have 24 hours in a day and 365 days in a year.
    - jwdunne 5y ago
      Time would feel faster too. We perceive time moving faster as we age. Apparently, it’s because our perception of time is relative. At 5 years old, 1 year feels like a long time because it’s 20% of our lives. But 1 year at 30 years old is a much smaller fraction.
      - Aerroon 5y ago
        I used to think that too, but nowadays I prescribe more to the idea that the perception of time is more related to how many new and unique experiences you have. As a kid everything is new and exciting, but as an adult you get stuck in a routine where things just blend together.
  - nyokodo 5y ago
    > I presume that given effective physical and mental immortality you'd see relatively few people hit 1,000 years simply because a lot of people would run out of meaningful things to do before then, and we don't tend to do well in that situation. Given an indefinite amount of time the probability of dying by murder, suicide, neglect, natural disaster, or the heat death of the universe trend towards 100%. Even digital or biological copies suffer from the same probability, and aren’t true immortality anyway. The talk of literal immortality “in this world” is so improbable it’s ridiculous and smacks of desperation.
  - jobigoud 5y ago
    > Statistically if I remember the half-life of people dying from random accidents is somewhere around 300-500 years I was intriguided by this so tried to find more. I found this simulator of death by unnatural causes. They estimate the life expectancy (in the USA) to 8938 years. You can also re run the simulation. Would love to see this for various countries. https://polstats.com/#!/life https://polstats.com/#!/life
    - spiralx 5y ago
      That's a far more reassuring figure lol, thanks for the link!
- benlivengood 5y ago
  > What if you were truly immortal, wouldn't you be driven mad soon enough? Driven mad by sunshine in nature, good friends, good food, exploration, good books and other media, working towards a goal, and meeting new people? Quality of life is the biggest determinant, and modern society being planned around aging and death is the second in the idea that people would not enjoy immortality. Of course deathly ill people would not enjoy immortality; people already sign DNR orders today to mitigate that lack of quality of life. Healthy people of any age generally enjoy life.

canada_dry 5y ago

Link with much better coverage of the study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-23894-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-23894-3

chrispeel 5y ago

I'm not certain that the article really does show that the "Ageing process is unstoppable" which is the title of the Guardian article. The title on MedicalXpress article is "We aren't living longer: Our improved lifespan is the result of not dying young" which seems to fit the study better https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-06-longer-lifespan-result-dying-young.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-06-longer-lifespan-resul...

0_gravitas 5y ago

"Study proves a negative!"

nikolay 5y ago

Everything dies - even stars do. So, who in their right mind will believe we can outlive the universe? It's all a matter of slowing down aging, not reversing it or stopping. Memento mori!