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I've quit a job because I was going through bad depression before and I didn't think I could do a good job. I even asked for part time work, so I understand whe

I've quit a job because I was going through bad depression before and I didn't think I could do a good job. I even asked for part time work, so I understand where she's coming from, but.. In my opinion, this attitude she's portraying is a dangerous attitude to have. This victimhood seems core to her identity. I'm not trying to shame the condition, I'm trying to say that the condition shouldn't become some core part of your identity. Real phenomenon: Have you ever heard of cancer patients becoming depressed after they've gone into remission, because being a "cancer patient" essentially became a core of their identity, and once they no longer had it they became lost? You don't want your identity to be "depressed person", because the last thing you want is to start feeling like a fraud when the fog starts to lift. Also, I'm just going to say, it's ok to want your employer to have empathy for you, but you also have to have empathy for them. If you're consistently telling them "well, so, I'm a good employee, but I might drop off the face of the earth for 4 months at a time".. what are they supposed to do?

TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
You see this a lot nowadays. A lot of social media sites are biased towards positivity and reaffirmation, but what happens is that people get lots of positive feedback for identities and mentalities that are counter productive to a good life.
vergessenmir 5y ago
I agree wholeheartedly while being empathetic with what she's going through. The identification is, as you say, dangerous. Most people have depressive episodes at least once in their lifetime, and it can leave just as suddenly as it comes. It makes me wonder if this intense identification slows her recovery or even worse blinds her from seeing its cause; if in this case it has to do with how she is living her life in terms of family, work and social life. I hope she gets better.
shkkmo 5y ago
I didn't see anything in the article about seeing herself as a victim or it being ”core to her identity." I think you might be projecting here. In fact, I see her desire and efforts to normalize depression as an attempt to move away from victimhood. > You don't want your identity to be "depressed person", because the last thing you want is to start feeling like a fraud when the fog starts to lift. You also don't want to assume because the fog lifted, you should completely disassemble the support mechanisms you have built. Like with cancer remission, there is a signifant chance of relapse that can be somewhat mitigated by good monitoring amd timely interventions.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
She's a woman in a man's world. It's much more socially acceptable to say "I'm depressed" than to say "Doors don't open for me even though I am doing all the things I get told I should do to make them open and I'm doing my best and nothing really works anyway. It's demoralizing." Women have long been given prescriptions for antidepressants in cases where "divorce" might have been a better prescription and so on. And you eventually get beat down by it. Even if it remains clear in your mind that your gender is a factor in things not working even though you work hard and do what you get told is the right thing to do and yadda, you eventually learn that saying it out loud not only will not get you any remedy, it will get you nothing but open hostility from other people.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  I'm doing my best and nothing really works anyway. This is probably something that most of us can relate to at some point in our lives.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    I don't know if that's supposed to be sympathetic or dismissive or what, but especially in combo with the downvotes, it's hard to not see it as dismissive. A woman says "It's not socially acceptable to talk about your gender being a factor in having trouble making your career work", gets downvoted to hell. People fail to see the irony. I've been on HN nearly twelve years as part of an overall good faith effort to sort my problems and make my life work and I am quite open about being dirt poor to the point of going hungry and being willing to work and wanting to improve my income and it failing to open doors for me. When I talk about "Most men don't really want to talk to me privately unless they are hitting on me" I get snide comments about how HN has no messaging system, as if people haven't heard of email. I'm telling you from firsthand experience this is amazingly demoralizing and crazy making and it isn't socially acceptable to talk about it no matter how much you can point to evidence that "My gender seems to be a factor in my intractable poverty" and no matter how carefully you word it to not be blamey or suggest people are doing you dirty with malice aforethought.
grae_QED 5y ago
I couldn't agree more. It was also a red flag when she said that she wanted to normalize her depression. Depression, like any other mental illness, should be destigmatized but not normalized. Through out the entire post she outlined exactly why it should not be normalized. It's a debilitating disorder that should not be left untreated. I think to try and normalize it would leave the impression that severe depression is analogous to having a hard day. This is because to most people that is the closest thing they have experienced to severe depression, but in reality it's very different. I think by doing this she is actually working against her own interests.
- schroeding 5y ago
  I agree with you about "normalization" vs "de-stigmatization", but I can't imagine she meant "normalization" like this? > people like me are here, everywhere, you could be me at any point in your life That's a very important point, and I believe that's what she meant by "normalise". "Normalise" in the "people with depression are normal people with an illness, not 'ill people', anyone can be affected because it's a normal illness like an infection" kind of way, which more or less equals de-stigmatization, right? But English is not my first language, it's totally possible I'm reading this the wrong way, feel free to correct me if that's not a possible way to read this article. :-) I can't really imagine that anyone with depression would really want to "normalise" it in the dictionary way, by suggesting that it should be untreated and a "normal way of life". On the contrary, nobody should have to suffer from this. :-/
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    The word "normalize" carries a lot of cultural baggage / implication since its adoption by the woke twitter crowd. Often, "normalize X" means "I want X to be common, I encourage doing X".
- jointpdf 5y ago
  On the topic of destigmatization, I recommend this Robert Sapolsky lecture (on the neurobiology of depression) to everyone to understand just how physical and systemic depression is: https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc. For understanding how lifestyle changes can help treat depression, I recommend this: https://youtu.be/drv3BP0Fdi8 https://youtu.be/drv3BP0Fdi8. He contradicts the author on the point of exercise—it is one of the most potent medicines (though hard to administer to yourself when you’re depressed). Reflecting on my own (extensive) experiences with depression and its co-conspirators, I think there are two deep fears that inhibit seeking or sticking with treatment: 1. What happens if I don’t get better? Then I’m hopeless. 2. What happens if I do get better (and it’s not enough, or I ruin my progress with a relapse)? I don’t have a definitive answer to either, but reasonable responses include: trying and failing feels better than languishing/surrendering (not trying is the only thing that’s likely hopeless), it is (or should be) OK to make nonlinear progress in managing chronic illness (depression or otherwise), and the universe/existence is at once magnificent and meaningless so just try to relax and enjoy the ride with your fellow creatures.
runawaybottle 5y ago
The irony of it all is that the author did just that, talk about her depression. Many people are habitual malcontents (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcontent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcontent). My parents were like that their entire life, and I picked it up and don’t know how to kick it (mostly try by shutting up). It’s awful way to be, but once it’s in you, good god it’s impossible to feel happy. It’s not clinical depression, it’s just a miserable disposition that can often be dressed in the guise of woe-is-me, the forever teenage goth kid. You see, I just did it again.

TheAdamAndChe 5y ago

You see this a lot nowadays. A lot of social media sites are biased towards positivity and reaffirmation, but what happens is that people get lots of positive feedback for identities and mentalities that are counter productive to a good life.

vergessenmir 5y ago

I agree wholeheartedly while being empathetic with what she's going through. The identification is, as you say, dangerous. Most people have depressive episodes at least once in their lifetime, and it can leave just as suddenly as it comes. It makes me wonder if this intense identification slows her recovery or even worse blinds her from seeing its cause; if in this case it has to do with how she is living her life in terms of family, work and social life. I hope she gets better.

shkkmo 5y ago

I didn't see anything in the article about seeing herself as a victim or it being ”core to her identity." I think you might be projecting here. In fact, I see her desire and efforts to normalize depression as an attempt to move away from victimhood. > You don't want your identity to be "depressed person", because the last thing you want is to start feeling like a fraud when the fog starts to lift. You also don't want to assume because the fog lifted, you should completely disassemble the support mechanisms you have built. Like with cancer remission, there is a signifant chance of relapse that can be somewhat mitigated by good monitoring amd timely interventions.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

She's a woman in a man's world. It's much more socially acceptable to say "I'm depressed" than to say "Doors don't open for me even though I am doing all the things I get told I should do to make them open and I'm doing my best and nothing really works anyway. It's demoralizing." Women have long been given prescriptions for antidepressants in cases where "divorce" might have been a better prescription and so on. And you eventually get beat down by it. Even if it remains clear in your mind that your gender is a factor in things not working even though you work hard and do what you get told is the right thing to do and yadda, you eventually learn that saying it out loud not only will not get you any remedy, it will get you nothing but open hostility from other people.

nitrogen 5y ago
I'm doing my best and nothing really works anyway. This is probably something that most of us can relate to at some point in our lives.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  I don't know if that's supposed to be sympathetic or dismissive or what, but especially in combo with the downvotes, it's hard to not see it as dismissive. A woman says "It's not socially acceptable to talk about your gender being a factor in having trouble making your career work", gets downvoted to hell. People fail to see the irony. I've been on HN nearly twelve years as part of an overall good faith effort to sort my problems and make my life work and I am quite open about being dirt poor to the point of going hungry and being willing to work and wanting to improve my income and it failing to open doors for me. When I talk about "Most men don't really want to talk to me privately unless they are hitting on me" I get snide comments about how HN has no messaging system, as if people haven't heard of email. I'm telling you from firsthand experience this is amazingly demoralizing and crazy making and it isn't socially acceptable to talk about it no matter how much you can point to evidence that "My gender seems to be a factor in my intractable poverty" and no matter how carefully you word it to not be blamey or suggest people are doing you dirty with malice aforethought.

grae_QED 5y ago

I couldn't agree more. It was also a red flag when she said that she wanted to normalize her depression. Depression, like any other mental illness, should be destigmatized but not normalized. Through out the entire post she outlined exactly why it should not be normalized. It's a debilitating disorder that should not be left untreated. I think to try and normalize it would leave the impression that severe depression is analogous to having a hard day. This is because to most people that is the closest thing they have experienced to severe depression, but in reality it's very different. I think by doing this she is actually working against her own interests.

schroeding 5y ago
I agree with you about "normalization" vs "de-stigmatization", but I can't imagine she meant "normalization" like this? > people like me are here, everywhere, you could be me at any point in your life That's a very important point, and I believe that's what she meant by "normalise". "Normalise" in the "people with depression are normal people with an illness, not 'ill people', anyone can be affected because it's a normal illness like an infection" kind of way, which more or less equals de-stigmatization, right? But English is not my first language, it's totally possible I'm reading this the wrong way, feel free to correct me if that's not a possible way to read this article. :-) I can't really imagine that anyone with depression would really want to "normalise" it in the dictionary way, by suggesting that it should be untreated and a "normal way of life". On the contrary, nobody should have to suffer from this. :-/
- dahfizz 5y ago
  The word "normalize" carries a lot of cultural baggage / implication since its adoption by the woke twitter crowd. Often, "normalize X" means "I want X to be common, I encourage doing X".
jointpdf 5y ago
On the topic of destigmatization, I recommend this Robert Sapolsky lecture (on the neurobiology of depression) to everyone to understand just how physical and systemic depression is: https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc. For understanding how lifestyle changes can help treat depression, I recommend this: https://youtu.be/drv3BP0Fdi8 https://youtu.be/drv3BP0Fdi8. He contradicts the author on the point of exercise—it is one of the most potent medicines (though hard to administer to yourself when you’re depressed). Reflecting on my own (extensive) experiences with depression and its co-conspirators, I think there are two deep fears that inhibit seeking or sticking with treatment: 1. What happens if I don’t get better? Then I’m hopeless. 2. What happens if I do get better (and it’s not enough, or I ruin my progress with a relapse)? I don’t have a definitive answer to either, but reasonable responses include: trying and failing feels better than languishing/surrendering (not trying is the only thing that’s likely hopeless), it is (or should be) OK to make nonlinear progress in managing chronic illness (depression or otherwise), and the universe/existence is at once magnificent and meaningless so just try to relax and enjoy the ride with your fellow creatures.

runawaybottle 5y ago

The irony of it all is that the author did just that, talk about her depression. Many people are habitual malcontents (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcontent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcontent). My parents were like that their entire life, and I picked it up and don’t know how to kick it (mostly try by shutting up). It’s awful way to be, but once it’s in you, good god it’s impossible to feel happy. It’s not clinical depression, it’s just a miserable disposition that can often be dressed in the guise of woe-is-me, the forever teenage goth kid. You see, I just did it again.