10 ms·

On Depression and Founders

204 points by jdbiggs 5y ago

josephfung 5y ago
Thanks for posting. Yes, +100 to this.
drewcoo 5y ago
Or maybe those founders who claim they can't form a group need to get together to talk about how it feels to not be listened to and how they are constantly dealing with people trying to one-up them. Maybe they feel they're always solving everyone else's hard problems but nobody's solving theirs. There is help for that: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-healing-crowd/201106/narcissistic-personality-disorder-does-group-therapy-help https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-healing-crowd/20...
- haswell 5y ago
  I'm trying to understand your perspective and what you're trying to say with this comment. Are you implying that these founders are narcissists? This seems like a pretty big leap. Edit: I think I get where you're coming from now, but when you're dealing with depression, unless that social circle of narcissists is the primary cause, focusing on "fixing" the narcissistic behavior is not really a great way to deal with the primary issue. Sure, it's a great goal, but it's probably unrelated to the founder's immediate needs. Don't ask a drowning person to coordinate their own rescue.
  - Growling_owl 5y ago
    It is. If you are competitive you don't need to be around people who try to one-up you to feel bad when they do in fact manage to one-up you. You will go and reaserch info on how other people are doing with their finances or private life or twitter followers or whatever the arena is. And you'd do so out of your own volition. This is very easy nowadays with the Internet
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    The article made mention of the fact that almost all of the startup founder/CEO social groups are environments of one-upmanship when what many people really need is support. The comment was referencing this part of the article.
    - haswell 5y ago
      I think I get where they're coming from now, but ultimately I feel that it's a misguided take. - TFA: Founders suffer from depression, and some have a difficult time getting support from their peers, because their peers are narcissists. - Parent comment: "Depressed founder claims they can't form a group..." links to an article that's focused on narcissists, not really a resource for a depressed founder. The trouble with the parent comment is that it's focused on "fixing" the situation with the narcissist social circle, when it may be more productive/appropriate to focus on the founder's immediate needs. Sure, it's useful to think about ways to improve the behaviors seen in the social circle, but that's not really top of mind for a depressed person. If I'm depressed, and I go to a friend for support, and they aren't in a place to support me, my next step isn't going to involve trying to change how my friend behaves, or trying to make it possible for them to support me.
      - AussieWog93 5y ago
        You're right, it is odd. I didn't actually read the link that the commenter had posted before writing the explanation (under the ironic assumption that you hadn't read the article, or skipped over that bit). I would say though, as a founder myself, I'm not sure how much of it is narcissism how much of it is the fact that we are excited by our success (and therefore want to share it with others), but tend to measure success quantitatively. In many cultures, quantitative statements about success come across as arrogant and narcissistic in a way that, say, buying an LV belt doesn't.
beforeolives 5y ago
As someone who is depressed, founding a company is very low on the list of things I would like to do. Reasons: - it's practically impossible for me to be excited about any business/software idea/project/opportunity - depression diminishes my productivity which is extremely important for a founder - the instability from building a company creates a negative feedback loop with one's depression I need stability and routine; I need to put in a lot of effort just to have a normal life and keep a job. Running a company becomes almost impossible in those circumstances.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  And that's totally ok. Many of us feel that way. I hope you're finding the help you need, whatever it is.
- freediver 5y ago
  I'll challenge your view. Stability and routine would probably lead me to depression. Our brains were built for a world that is messy and unpredictable. If you are depressed, perhaps doing something unexpected and venturing into unknown is exactly what you need to do.
  - beforeolives 5y ago
    Maybe we have very different experiences and perspectives. If you're healthy and things are going well, then stability and routine look like something boring that maybe even takes away from the quality of your life. If you're struggling to function and having a normal day is an achievement on its own, then things look a lot different.
    - freediver 5y ago
      I can certainly appreciate difference in life's circumstances. My goal was to offer a different perspective, that's all.
browningstreet 5y ago
A la Paul Graham's "keep your identity small", maybe "founder" doesn't need to be an identity association for everything.
- sergiomattei 5y ago
  I agree wholly, but to understand why people do this, the benefits that come with such a practice can't be understated. There can be big marketing wins in associating yourself closely with your brand. It's a big risk you take, and you must be confident enough in yourself to take it, because it can be soul crushing if your startup tips over.
- dnh44 5y ago
  I always sort of thought that calling yourself a CEO or managing director of a small company sounded pretty lame and pretentious, but that founder worked quite well as a modest but accurate job title. I don't know if that was ever true or if it was only true in my head but either way I think that the term founder has picked up some baggage in the last decade.
void_mint 5y ago
> A startup isn’t a suicide pact, it’s an adventure. "Hustle Mentality" really ruins a lot of the magic of this statement (hence why this post needed to exist in the first place). That and ad revenue. > You are important, you are intelligent, and you are loving. You’re worth worrying about. Well said.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  Hustle mentality is a choice. You can choose to prioritize other things. Most people will never be at the top of the world; it’s ok to have a well-paid but mundane job and use the money and free time to enjoy life. If we’re being honest, the future isn’t all that bright for any of us on this planet, so we might as well enjoy the good days we have left.
  - void_mint 5y ago
    I think you're being downvoted because, while yes "hustle mentality is a choice", it's also been propagandized and thrown at millions of people as a metric for success. To tell a 24 year old code school grad that "hustle mentality is a choice" ignores how easily that codeschool grad is getting dismissed from employment opportunities in favor of people that gladly throw their entire life away to land a job. Lots of people just want the "well paid mundane job" you're suggesting is "ok" to have.
    - wayoutthere 5y ago
      I’ve come to learn that creating the appearance of hustle while actually not doing that much work is the route to go. You have to be a ruthless self-promoter for it to be effective but it’s easy to just pretend to be busy all the time and talk up the very few things you do achieve. I’ve built a 20-year career from this, so I don’t believe it has a limited runway. I plan on riding this lazy train all the way to an exec role (director now so I don’t actually do much other than delegate anyway). The whole thing is a fucking scam in the end. Hard work doesn’t pay off — pretty much every working-class person works 10x harder than me for 1/10 of the pay. The lazy person who can bullshit really well is always going to make more and burn out less.
failwhaleshark 5y ago
In bodies with testicles, low T (from a number of possible causes) can be even worse than just depression: inability to concentrate, confusion, alertness, consciousness, memory, anxiety, social, and sleep problems. You don't want this. Maslow's hierarchy things help: Sleep (where possible), diet, water, exercise (HIIT cardio and weightlifting), get outside, routine, defuse catastrophizing thoughts with reality, and not everything is as hard as it may seem (no mind, grasshoppa). Avoid: alcohol, walnuts, almonds, soy, licorice root (black licorice candy), mint, certain oils (canola, corn, cottonseed, soybean, flaxseed, sunflower, safflower, palm kernel, "vegetable"), sugar/HFCS, carbs, trans-fats, and excessive omega-3.
- ramoz 5y ago
  Why walnuts & almonds?
  - failwhaleshark 5y ago
    PUFAs
- armchairhacker 5y ago
  Almost any hormonal imbalance will lead to the symptoms you described. Also AFAIK soy and most of the other foods you listed causing low T is a myth. You do bring up a very good point though: sometimes depression is a mental symptom of a physical problem. Bad hormones can make you hopeless, they can take enjoyment and passion out of everything, they can completely alter your thinking and personality (I know from experience). Which is another reason to not commit suicide when you're depressed. Even if you cannot physically imagine yourself happy, seek a doctor to check if your hormones are off. And if they can't find anything, seek another doctor (there are many many things that can go wrong with your body and cause depression, one doctor won't check them all). People's lives have been changed because they found weird holistic treatments which cured their rare hormone imbalance, which caused their depression.
  - failwhaleshark 5y ago
    Causing? No. I never said that. Reducing? Yes. It's important if there's an underlying condition causing low T to not lower it even further. Excessive PUFS or omega-3 leads free T to be SHBG-bound. Albumin-bound and free are the only readily, universally bioavailable forms. If you commit suicide, you throw away all future changes to a different state.
noway421 5y ago
As a founder with a failed startup, I relate. Talking to people helps. But as one of my friends said, very aptly, "There's no one else who can fix it but you". Even though it sounds very abrupt and unhelpful, it's true. Finding inner peace, on your own, is what can actually help. I still haven't.
- inakarmacoma 5y ago
  Honest question, acknowledging it sounds a bit snarky. But as a fellow sufferer, if you still haven't, how do you know?
  - noway421 5y ago
    I really don't, but I assume it's true. Someone else once said that you can't find happiness outside [of yourself]. So being content is about finding inner peace?
    - _carbyau_ 5y ago
      I can't pretend to know your story. My story is not startup related. But "inner peace" frustrates me. For my turmoils, it was about acceptance. Saying "Yeah... that happened" with the idea the past doesn't define me. To make the past separate do something, anything, that "past you" wouldn't guess, even just once. Maybe put cupcake-sprinkles on your morning cappuccino or on a PB&J sandwich. Change your desktop wallpaper to unicorns and rainbows. Sing along to a death metal song before breakfast. . This does two things: 1. Bookends an era. The old era is now BSC.(Before SprinkledCoffee) 2. Means you can do things tomorrow that even you can't predict today. Congrats. You are now living in a new era where even you can't foresee the possibilities. No inner peace though. Your past will always be your past. You will continue to have feelings about it though it does get easier over time. Maybe see a therapist if you can. I like Desiderata, one unequivocal phrase of which is: "You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here." You have a right to be here.
- sergiomattei 5y ago
  Mine failed two months ago. I quit all social media abruptly, worked on myself, and began the dissolution process. I feel better. Distancing myself completely helped with the tough emotions of moving on. If you need to talk or vent to anyone, email in profile.
throwaway92029 5y ago
There's likely a confounding variable. As someone who runs in circles with a lot of founders, what drives people to start companies is general life dissatisfaction and a search for meaning that they aim to find by taking the leap to start their own company which they hope will create meaning in their lives. Given that 80-90% of startups fail, it's like the old xkcd. [1] You started with 1 problem (dissatisfied with life), went to solve it, and now you have 2 problems (dissatisfied with life & a failed company). [1] https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
djyaz1200 5y ago
There is a mental health aspect to this for sure, but there is also a practical one. From a mental health perspective people who are bipolar are very over represented in the founder pool because mania is rewarded in many startup situations. Even if one is not clinically bipolar the experience of running a startup is like imposing this condition on yourself in many ways. There is also a practical aspect to this problem, if you don't want founders to kill themselves give them a job board. I'm 43 years old with no degree, I've taken two startups including the one I'm running now from zero to $50K in MRR on shoestring budgets. If I fail this time my fall back plan is to work at a tire store or be a police officer. Yeah I've been through the Google hiring process and others but in the end I always come up just short, because I'm a little weird and I'm not a specialist... I'm a generalist. Not enough businesses actively recruit failed founders, this promotes the succeed at all costs mentality which is obviously toxic.
- awillen 5y ago
  This really rings true with me as someone who's interviewed a few failed founders for PM roles. This was always at early-stage startups, so it wasn't an issue of skills (generalists tend to be great fits for early-stage PM work) but rather a question of whether this was just a temporary stop to shore up finances and get a break from the stress of being a founder until it was time to start the next company. I believe we only hired one that I interviewed, and sure enough he lasted six months before leaving. Great guy, and we parted ways amicably, but he just couldn't go back. And now that I'm on the other side of it as an early-stage founder, I honestly feel like my instincts against hiring them were right. If my company failed, I'd probably get a PM job, but I'm not sure if I'd be able to stick with it. On the one hand, it would honestly be really nice to have the stress of ultimate decision making on someone else's shoulders, but at the end of the day, even with the stress, I like being the one to call the shots. Something more advisory would probably be more interesting, but obviously advisory jobs for startups aren't easy to come by. The upside for me, at least, is that I didn't decide to start something until I had a healthy financial cushion. I've put some money in, but I'm absolute never going to be one of those back against the wall, deep in credit card debt kind of founders. That would create more stress than I could handle, and I think the glorification of that lifestyle definitely leaves some failed founders in much worse positions than they should end up in.
oblib 5y ago
I think that founders, by their very nature, expect big things to happen and when they don't the fall is greater for them than those who don't have big expectations. Personally I'd rather hang with those who tried and failed than those who'd never try.
- throwawaygimp 5y ago
  Thanks
- markdjacobsen 5y ago
  Your comment reminded me of research by Eva de Mol, Jeff Pollack, and Violet T. Ho that resonated with me.[0] They studied "destiny beliefs" as an explanatory variable for entrepreneur burnout. Those words perfectly captured what I felt when I started my nonprofit (now failed). It was as if the heavens opened, and I was divinely appointed for the task. That gave me incredible energy but made for a devastating fall. These days I try to carry my expectations more lightly. [0] https://hbr.org/2018/04/what-makes-entrepreneurs-burn-out https://hbr.org/2018/04/what-makes-entrepreneurs-burn-out
okareaman 5y ago
> You’re in the arena. You’re building. You will, at one point in the near future, be miraculously happy and successful It was a little weird reading this because I became suicidal after I became successful and had a big bank account, beautiful wife and status home. I'm still trying to understand it, but basically I was so focused on success that I forgot to have a life outside of work. Then when the work was done, I didn't have a life. When I looked around I saw that my kids were grown and I was never going to get that time back. Be careful what you wish for is all I can say.
- brag 5y ago
  Can you expand on your experience? any particular lessons you learned? Seems like you had all the conventional marks of success, I find it hard to believe that that was all for naught.
  - brudgers 5y ago
    Maybe it was whose definition of “success” the person was pursuing…conventional definitions are conventional because people accept them without deep reflection on whether they are right for them. They are easier to adopt than to question. Or a problem with winning the rat race is you have to be a rat. Unhappiness is worse than for naught.
    - okareaman 5y ago
      If you've seen Breaking Bad (if not, I'm not spoiling much) there is a scene where he tells his wife "I did it all for the family" and she disgustingly turns her head away and says something like "You did it for your own ego. You didn't care about us." It's kind of like that.
      - brudgers 5y ago
        I apologize for mischaracterizing your experience. I am sorry. I hope you are healing.
  - 5y ago
maybelsyrup 5y ago
> First, if you’re suicidal, WhatsApp me at +1[...] I'm not sure this is something this person should be saying. Not a lawyer but I'd want to talk to one about liability issues in putting that out on the internet. Even for trained professionals, "if this is an emergency, please call 911" is pretty much SOP for actively suicidal people. Not saying it's not a laudable sentiment, either - if anything we need more people willing to talk about this stuff with strangers. But the law may put one in a weird position here - and even beyond that, this is America, where everyone sues everyone else. Suppose this guy talks to someone, that person offs themselves, and then their family comes knocking, wondering what happened on that phone call?
- wayeq 5y ago
  i've volunteered quite a bit on prevention lines. he absolutely should not be asking potentially suicidal people to WhatsApp him. if you're not trained you can have the best intentions and still bring about the worst outcome.
  - borepop 5y ago
    Unhappy humans have been speaking to other humans for thousands of years without anybody setting up arbitrary "trainings" about it and meaningless certifications that allow us to pretend that we can stave off the psychological chaos involved in being alive. I think it will be okay. And even if it's not okay, it already wasn't okay in the first place.
    - loriverkutya 5y ago
      Based on your comment I think you don’t understand what’s the difference on being unhappy and being suicidal.
b20000 5y ago
I've been dealing with depression off and on for a good 10 years now. My company was almost completely destroyed by nepotism and corruption and bad investors, beyond my control. This was back in Europe. I've tried to get traditional help (talking) and although I thought it was working I realized later on I was convincing myself it was working, while it was not, and that the person helping me would never understand me as a founder or understand what it is to start a business and then see it being destroyed at the point it is about to become really successful. They would never understand the endless hours someone spends on writing every single line of code, spending all savings, and the endless anxiety that comes with all that. I've looked around for specialized help but it doesn't seem to exist. Most founders are too busy to really talk about it, and the one psychologist/therapist I did find who is familiar with the tech world was going to be too expensive for me to afford, and was not in my health care network. What we really need IMHO is a specialized non profit that deals with mental health issues of founders, perhaps run by a variety of ex-founders, both those who were succesful and those who were not.
- robocat 5y ago
  Do you think the years of effort founders put in is psychologically distinct from the years of devotion people put into other things that can result in crushing disappoint like marriages, jobs, children, religion or sports?
  - b20000 5y ago
    I have no idea about other people's struggles, just sharing my story here and why I feel there is not enough being done for founders specifically. The things you list are things that most psychologists or therapists have experience with, and that is my point.
- markdjacobsen 5y ago
  I'm a two-time failed founder. The first was a humanitarian drone nonprofit, and the second was a software development team internal to government. The first failure absolutely wrecked me. Your comment resonated because nothing prepared me for the unique experiences and traumas of presiding over a startup failure. I truly felt like I was on my own, trying to navigate the prolonged journey through failure, healing, and renewal. I ended up writing a book to help other failed founders, titled "Eating Glass: The Inner Journey Through Failure and Renewal." Book here [0] and 60-pg sample here [1]. I plan to share it via "Show HN" soon, but given your plea for resources, I'd love to send you a free digital copy. Just send me an email address at mark@markdjacobsen.com. My passion with this book is really just to help other failed founders on their journeys. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Eating-Glass-Journey-Through-Failure/dp/1736402803/ https://www.amazon.com/Eating-Glass-Journey-Through-Failure/... [1] https://markdjacobsen.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Eating-Glass-Sample.pdf https://markdjacobsen.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Eating-...
smackeyacky 5y ago
Here is what happened on my journey so far - will try to keep it short but it might help somebody else in the same boat. I wasn't enjoying my job (as an employee) - the biggest problem I had was a nagging feeling that the people in the industry I was working in were setting an agenda that farmers would simply never be able to follow. I was actually suffering from depression but I didn't know it at the time. I had a huge argument with my boss and quit. I had been working on the product for a little while but didn't really have anything concrete. Within a couple of months of resigning I had an MVP and a co-founder. We managed to get a little VC funding and went on the startup adventure. Turned out the co-founder was a complete fraud. He was supposed to be my hardware guy (I was software) but he didn't know anything about hardware that I didn't already know. He couldn't even read a circuit diagram. I was kind of stuck at that stage, we were overseas developing the product and I thought rather stupidly I could get him to fit in doing something else. He was useless at everything. Couldn't write a program to save his life, didn't understand the product designers, couldn't help with anything. I eventually had to sideline him into doing things like grant applications and whatnot which he did manage to finish although it took a few arguments every time to get him to finish anything. I set a pretty punishing schedule for the field trials. It was a whirlwind really, lots of travel, got everything working despite having to drag that useless turd all over the place. A couple of years ago he quit and became a massive PITA while we tried to get the legal stuff sorted out to cancel his unvested shares - another long story of his stupidity and various own goals. Anyway, shortly after he quit we did have customers and revenue and it looked like it had some momentum but I contracted a little illness over that Christmas and found myself unable to get out of bed and was at divorce level with my long suffering wife. It was bad. I had contemplated steering the car over a few ravines. That undiagnosed depression took a massive hold on me. I went to the doctor who was instantly understanding of the utter despair I was in at the time. He referred me to a psychologist who set me on a path of recovery. It isn't always easy and that mood occasionally re-appears (especially after you get knocked back by another investor) but I feel like I have the tools and the understanding to keep it more or less in check. The funny thing about that period of depression was that it was the most focused and creative period of my 50 year life. I wrote some really excellent code, built an entire system from firmware up to server software and it worked the very first time we tried it on animals. The first time. An incredible achievement that I am not sure I would have been able to complete without the focus and creativity that the depression was a part of. So I'm kind of ambivalent about episodes of depression being entirely destructive, they weren't for me.
RHSman2 5y ago
As a sort of failed founder I think the hardest thing is the resilient loneliness. You build this castle in your psyche and have to implement it in real life and no one knows the full picture. Initially super exciting and then reality. I 100% understand why suicide is a very real option without good support.
- topicseed 5y ago
  Not failing myself, although running a simple one-man show, but loneliness is indeed the hardest part. And I'm rather distanced myself naturally. Tried meetups... Too much posturing and no vulnerability. Tried online groups... Too digital. Very curious to see how people handle that loneliness. It's terribly hard at times.
  - dsign 5y ago
    Don't seek other founders, we are a boring bunch--for the most part--and too hectic. Also they will induce anxiety in you. Online games changed my life when I was deep in/under the valley of startup desperation. I met people I could talk about non-work things. Or whom I could joke with about my job. That also helped, trying to see the funny side of the harsh life of a company founder from the outside. That was four years ago. Company is doing better than ever these days, not particularly thanks to me. And I don't feel too lonely these days. Another thing that worked for a friend of mine: writing fiction. He says his characters live in his mind, like he is the hardware running the world of his books, so he never feels alone. And he also gets to interact a lot with fellow writers in the real world. Fiction writers are a very different bunch than software developers, it seems, they are more concerned about people feelings and such.
    - RHSman2 5y ago
      Yeah, it is important to get grounded. Friends, activities, sport which seems of secondary importance but in the long run primary. I found climbing to be the best of all things. It shut my mind down (as I was very focused!)
freediver 5y ago
Not sure if the advice from the article is applicable (paraphrasing: "if too much, quit". By that time you are in too many obligations to too many people). Here is different advice instead. Do not raise VC money if you can. Bootstrap and enjoy the process of building and discovery even if it ends up being a smaller thing. As Shatner says, at the end it all does not matter. Stay independent, stay free, stay focused and stay true to yourself.
- freediver 5y ago
  Edit: Bootstrapping does not need to be a "smaller thing" necessarily. Last time I bootstrapped something it ended as an 8 digit acquisition (of which I owned 100%). It is the same outcome as a 9 digit acquisition where you own a single digit equity percentage. Not to mention the lack of any depression because the process is by definition focused on yourself and your capabilities. You pace it any way you want. You make it as challenging as you want it to be.
elietoubi 5y ago
The problem is that most founder think that they need to be miserable to be successful.
- lazharichir 5y ago
  Not true in my opinion. It's mostly that what is perceived as success may be birthed out of sacrifices, compromises, and loneliness. Many bootstrappers I know have managed to be successful but lost loved ones whilst getting there. It does. It have to be this way, but it often takes obsessive behaviour for many to get results. And that's just unhealthy, whether you succeed or fail.
Richardson412 5y ago
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bumbada 5y ago
I was raised in Spain. We have the opposite problem. The catholic culture is "nothing is your responsibility", even things that clearly are. It is Mt 6,24-34 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money. “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear." It just doesn't make sense for me to suicide because my business fails. There will always be an excuse and failure is just not that important. In the protestant culture, it is the opposite, "everything is your responsibility", even things that clearly are not. "success" and "failure" are sacred words, like "winners" or "losers". And life is about competition and individualism, even in teams. I have helped refugees and drug addicts. I would never have the temptation to call them(or think about them as) "losers", but I have seen people in the US call them this word. It is a good idea that you expose yourself to different cultures so you could see through and take what is good for each one. Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages.
khazhoux 5y ago
Although I recognize the author's best intentions, the narrative of founders being somehow "special" never sits right with me. Yes, the founder/CEO has the responsibility of the entire company on their shoulders, but everyone else has their own world on their shoulders, too. It's not only the founder who has a dream, who wants to accomplish great things, who will beat themselves up when they fail. Paul Simon, American Tune: | And I don't know a soul who's not been battered | I don't have a friend who feels at ease | I don't know a dream that's not been shattered | Or driven to its knees
lkrubner 5y ago
My former business partner deals with the stress by smoking a lot of weed, which may or may not have affected the presentations he gives in public. You can judge for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8znQZ1RUckg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8znQZ1RUckg More generally, some combination of fundraising plus Ted Talks (and other venues that look for speakers who have something "visionary" to say) gives everyone an incentive to develop an aesthetic of being "visionary". It's not healthy. This is very much what I tried to parody in my comedy: https://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Really-Terrible-Dating-ebook/dp/B096RDX91M/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=how+to+build+a+really+terrible+dating+app&qid=1624014448&sr=8-3 https://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Really-Terrible-Dating-eboo...
- lgvld 5y ago
  > You can judge for yourself: I don’t know what to think... but I checked the video after reading your comment and... I laughed. ;-) He send good vibes though.
dennis_jeeves 5y ago
To add to the depression - as they say it's lonely 'up' there. (even if the organization that you founded is doing well financially and well past it's founding stage.)
jdbiggs 5y ago
Hey guys. I wrote this. If you need help ask someone for it and if you’re too cool to get help good luck.
danbmil99 5y ago
As a serial founder/ employee number 2 or 3, I'm seriously addicted to early startup. Plus I'm older than most of y'all so the hiring thing is even harder. What I did to remain viable in the periods between startups is, I got really good at a couple technical things that are in high demand and I consult, for small startups who just raised money and really need something to work. So far my eccentric history seems intriguing to my clients and not a red flag as it would be for Faang. I suspect this strategy will continue to work as long as start-up capital is flooding the zone. Once there's a pullback, I'm likely to be in trouble. So of course I'm raising money again for another startup. Wish me luck.

204 points by jdbiggs 5y ago

Thanks for posting. Yes, +100 to this.

Or maybe those founders who claim they can't form a group need to get together to talk about how it feels to not be listened to and how they are constantly dealing with people trying to one-up them. Maybe they feel they're always solving everyone else's hard problems but nobody's solving theirs. There is help for that: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-healing-crowd/201106/narcissistic-personality-disorder-does-group-therapy-help https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-healing-crowd/20...

haswell 5y ago
I'm trying to understand your perspective and what you're trying to say with this comment. Are you implying that these founders are narcissists? This seems like a pretty big leap. Edit: I think I get where you're coming from now, but when you're dealing with depression, unless that social circle of narcissists is the primary cause, focusing on "fixing" the narcissistic behavior is not really a great way to deal with the primary issue. Sure, it's a great goal, but it's probably unrelated to the founder's immediate needs. Don't ask a drowning person to coordinate their own rescue.
- Growling_owl 5y ago
  It is. If you are competitive you don't need to be around people who try to one-up you to feel bad when they do in fact manage to one-up you. You will go and reaserch info on how other people are doing with their finances or private life or twitter followers or whatever the arena is. And you'd do so out of your own volition. This is very easy nowadays with the Internet
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  The article made mention of the fact that almost all of the startup founder/CEO social groups are environments of one-upmanship when what many people really need is support. The comment was referencing this part of the article.
  - haswell 5y ago
    I think I get where they're coming from now, but ultimately I feel that it's a misguided take. - TFA: Founders suffer from depression, and some have a difficult time getting support from their peers, because their peers are narcissists. - Parent comment: "Depressed founder claims they can't form a group..." links to an article that's focused on narcissists, not really a resource for a depressed founder. The trouble with the parent comment is that it's focused on "fixing" the situation with the narcissist social circle, when it may be more productive/appropriate to focus on the founder's immediate needs. Sure, it's useful to think about ways to improve the behaviors seen in the social circle, but that's not really top of mind for a depressed person. If I'm depressed, and I go to a friend for support, and they aren't in a place to support me, my next step isn't going to involve trying to change how my friend behaves, or trying to make it possible for them to support me.
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      You're right, it is odd. I didn't actually read the link that the commenter had posted before writing the explanation (under the ironic assumption that you hadn't read the article, or skipped over that bit). I would say though, as a founder myself, I'm not sure how much of it is narcissism how much of it is the fact that we are excited by our success (and therefore want to share it with others), but tend to measure success quantitatively. In many cultures, quantitative statements about success come across as arrogant and narcissistic in a way that, say, buying an LV belt doesn't.

beforeolives 5y ago

As someone who is depressed, founding a company is very low on the list of things I would like to do. Reasons: - it's practically impossible for me to be excited about any business/software idea/project/opportunity - depression diminishes my productivity which is extremely important for a founder - the instability from building a company creates a negative feedback loop with one's depression I need stability and routine; I need to put in a lot of effort just to have a normal life and keep a job. Running a company becomes almost impossible in those circumstances.

barbazoo 5y ago
And that's totally ok. Many of us feel that way. I hope you're finding the help you need, whatever it is.
freediver 5y ago
I'll challenge your view. Stability and routine would probably lead me to depression. Our brains were built for a world that is messy and unpredictable. If you are depressed, perhaps doing something unexpected and venturing into unknown is exactly what you need to do.
- beforeolives 5y ago
  Maybe we have very different experiences and perspectives. If you're healthy and things are going well, then stability and routine look like something boring that maybe even takes away from the quality of your life. If you're struggling to function and having a normal day is an achievement on its own, then things look a lot different.
  - freediver 5y ago
    I can certainly appreciate difference in life's circumstances. My goal was to offer a different perspective, that's all.

browningstreet 5y ago

A la Paul Graham's "keep your identity small", maybe "founder" doesn't need to be an identity association for everything.

sergiomattei 5y ago
I agree wholly, but to understand why people do this, the benefits that come with such a practice can't be understated. There can be big marketing wins in associating yourself closely with your brand. It's a big risk you take, and you must be confident enough in yourself to take it, because it can be soul crushing if your startup tips over.
dnh44 5y ago
I always sort of thought that calling yourself a CEO or managing director of a small company sounded pretty lame and pretentious, but that founder worked quite well as a modest but accurate job title. I don't know if that was ever true or if it was only true in my head but either way I think that the term founder has picked up some baggage in the last decade.

void_mint 5y ago

> A startup isn’t a suicide pact, it’s an adventure. "Hustle Mentality" really ruins a lot of the magic of this statement (hence why this post needed to exist in the first place). That and ad revenue. > You are important, you are intelligent, and you are loving. You’re worth worrying about. Well said.

wayoutthere 5y ago
Hustle mentality is a choice. You can choose to prioritize other things. Most people will never be at the top of the world; it’s ok to have a well-paid but mundane job and use the money and free time to enjoy life. If we’re being honest, the future isn’t all that bright for any of us on this planet, so we might as well enjoy the good days we have left.
- void_mint 5y ago
  I think you're being downvoted because, while yes "hustle mentality is a choice", it's also been propagandized and thrown at millions of people as a metric for success. To tell a 24 year old code school grad that "hustle mentality is a choice" ignores how easily that codeschool grad is getting dismissed from employment opportunities in favor of people that gladly throw their entire life away to land a job. Lots of people just want the "well paid mundane job" you're suggesting is "ok" to have.
  - wayoutthere 5y ago
    I’ve come to learn that creating the appearance of hustle while actually not doing that much work is the route to go. You have to be a ruthless self-promoter for it to be effective but it’s easy to just pretend to be busy all the time and talk up the very few things you do achieve. I’ve built a 20-year career from this, so I don’t believe it has a limited runway. I plan on riding this lazy train all the way to an exec role (director now so I don’t actually do much other than delegate anyway). The whole thing is a fucking scam in the end. Hard work doesn’t pay off — pretty much every working-class person works 10x harder than me for 1/10 of the pay. The lazy person who can bullshit really well is always going to make more and burn out less.

failwhaleshark 5y ago

In bodies with testicles, low T (from a number of possible causes) can be even worse than just depression: inability to concentrate, confusion, alertness, consciousness, memory, anxiety, social, and sleep problems. You don't want this. Maslow's hierarchy things help: Sleep (where possible), diet, water, exercise (HIIT cardio and weightlifting), get outside, routine, defuse catastrophizing thoughts with reality, and not everything is as hard as it may seem (no mind, grasshoppa). Avoid: alcohol, walnuts, almonds, soy, licorice root (black licorice candy), mint, certain oils (canola, corn, cottonseed, soybean, flaxseed, sunflower, safflower, palm kernel, "vegetable"), sugar/HFCS, carbs, trans-fats, and excessive omega-3.

ramoz 5y ago
Why walnuts & almonds?
- failwhaleshark 5y ago
  PUFAs
armchairhacker 5y ago
Almost any hormonal imbalance will lead to the symptoms you described. Also AFAIK soy and most of the other foods you listed causing low T is a myth. You do bring up a very good point though: sometimes depression is a mental symptom of a physical problem. Bad hormones can make you hopeless, they can take enjoyment and passion out of everything, they can completely alter your thinking and personality (I know from experience). Which is another reason to not commit suicide when you're depressed. Even if you cannot physically imagine yourself happy, seek a doctor to check if your hormones are off. And if they can't find anything, seek another doctor (there are many many things that can go wrong with your body and cause depression, one doctor won't check them all). People's lives have been changed because they found weird holistic treatments which cured their rare hormone imbalance, which caused their depression.
- failwhaleshark 5y ago
  Causing? No. I never said that. Reducing? Yes. It's important if there's an underlying condition causing low T to not lower it even further. Excessive PUFS or omega-3 leads free T to be SHBG-bound. Albumin-bound and free are the only readily, universally bioavailable forms. If you commit suicide, you throw away all future changes to a different state.

noway421 5y ago

As a founder with a failed startup, I relate. Talking to people helps. But as one of my friends said, very aptly, "There's no one else who can fix it but you". Even though it sounds very abrupt and unhelpful, it's true. Finding inner peace, on your own, is what can actually help. I still haven't.

inakarmacoma 5y ago
Honest question, acknowledging it sounds a bit snarky. But as a fellow sufferer, if you still haven't, how do you know?
- noway421 5y ago
  I really don't, but I assume it's true. Someone else once said that you can't find happiness outside [of yourself]. So being content is about finding inner peace?
  - _carbyau_ 5y ago
    I can't pretend to know your story. My story is not startup related. But "inner peace" frustrates me. For my turmoils, it was about acceptance. Saying "Yeah... that happened" with the idea the past doesn't define me. To make the past separate do something, anything, that "past you" wouldn't guess, even just once. Maybe put cupcake-sprinkles on your morning cappuccino or on a PB&J sandwich. Change your desktop wallpaper to unicorns and rainbows. Sing along to a death metal song before breakfast. . This does two things: 1. Bookends an era. The old era is now BSC.(Before SprinkledCoffee) 2. Means you can do things tomorrow that even you can't predict today. Congrats. You are now living in a new era where even you can't foresee the possibilities. No inner peace though. Your past will always be your past. You will continue to have feelings about it though it does get easier over time. Maybe see a therapist if you can. I like Desiderata, one unequivocal phrase of which is: "You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here." You have a right to be here.
sergiomattei 5y ago
Mine failed two months ago. I quit all social media abruptly, worked on myself, and began the dissolution process. I feel better. Distancing myself completely helped with the tough emotions of moving on. If you need to talk or vent to anyone, email in profile.

throwaway92029 5y ago

There's likely a confounding variable. As someone who runs in circles with a lot of founders, what drives people to start companies is general life dissatisfaction and a search for meaning that they aim to find by taking the leap to start their own company which they hope will create meaning in their lives. Given that 80-90% of startups fail, it's like the old xkcd. [1] You started with 1 problem (dissatisfied with life), went to solve it, and now you have 2 problems (dissatisfied with life & a failed company). [1] https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/

djyaz1200 5y ago

There is a mental health aspect to this for sure, but there is also a practical one. From a mental health perspective people who are bipolar are very over represented in the founder pool because mania is rewarded in many startup situations. Even if one is not clinically bipolar the experience of running a startup is like imposing this condition on yourself in many ways. There is also a practical aspect to this problem, if you don't want founders to kill themselves give them a job board. I'm 43 years old with no degree, I've taken two startups including the one I'm running now from zero to $50K in MRR on shoestring budgets. If I fail this time my fall back plan is to work at a tire store or be a police officer. Yeah I've been through the Google hiring process and others but in the end I always come up just short, because I'm a little weird and I'm not a specialist... I'm a generalist. Not enough businesses actively recruit failed founders, this promotes the succeed at all costs mentality which is obviously toxic.

awillen 5y ago
This really rings true with me as someone who's interviewed a few failed founders for PM roles. This was always at early-stage startups, so it wasn't an issue of skills (generalists tend to be great fits for early-stage PM work) but rather a question of whether this was just a temporary stop to shore up finances and get a break from the stress of being a founder until it was time to start the next company. I believe we only hired one that I interviewed, and sure enough he lasted six months before leaving. Great guy, and we parted ways amicably, but he just couldn't go back. And now that I'm on the other side of it as an early-stage founder, I honestly feel like my instincts against hiring them were right. If my company failed, I'd probably get a PM job, but I'm not sure if I'd be able to stick with it. On the one hand, it would honestly be really nice to have the stress of ultimate decision making on someone else's shoulders, but at the end of the day, even with the stress, I like being the one to call the shots. Something more advisory would probably be more interesting, but obviously advisory jobs for startups aren't easy to come by. The upside for me, at least, is that I didn't decide to start something until I had a healthy financial cushion. I've put some money in, but I'm absolute never going to be one of those back against the wall, deep in credit card debt kind of founders. That would create more stress than I could handle, and I think the glorification of that lifestyle definitely leaves some failed founders in much worse positions than they should end up in.

oblib 5y ago

I think that founders, by their very nature, expect big things to happen and when they don't the fall is greater for them than those who don't have big expectations. Personally I'd rather hang with those who tried and failed than those who'd never try.

throwawaygimp 5y ago
Thanks
markdjacobsen 5y ago
Your comment reminded me of research by Eva de Mol, Jeff Pollack, and Violet T. Ho that resonated with me.[0] They studied "destiny beliefs" as an explanatory variable for entrepreneur burnout. Those words perfectly captured what I felt when I started my nonprofit (now failed). It was as if the heavens opened, and I was divinely appointed for the task. That gave me incredible energy but made for a devastating fall. These days I try to carry my expectations more lightly. [0] https://hbr.org/2018/04/what-makes-entrepreneurs-burn-out https://hbr.org/2018/04/what-makes-entrepreneurs-burn-out

okareaman 5y ago

> You’re in the arena. You’re building. You will, at one point in the near future, be miraculously happy and successful It was a little weird reading this because I became suicidal after I became successful and had a big bank account, beautiful wife and status home. I'm still trying to understand it, but basically I was so focused on success that I forgot to have a life outside of work. Then when the work was done, I didn't have a life. When I looked around I saw that my kids were grown and I was never going to get that time back. Be careful what you wish for is all I can say.

brag 5y ago
Can you expand on your experience? any particular lessons you learned? Seems like you had all the conventional marks of success, I find it hard to believe that that was all for naught.
- brudgers 5y ago
  Maybe it was whose definition of “success” the person was pursuing…conventional definitions are conventional because people accept them without deep reflection on whether they are right for them. They are easier to adopt than to question. Or a problem with winning the rat race is you have to be a rat. Unhappiness is worse than for naught.
  - okareaman 5y ago
    If you've seen Breaking Bad (if not, I'm not spoiling much) there is a scene where he tells his wife "I did it all for the family" and she disgustingly turns her head away and says something like "You did it for your own ego. You didn't care about us." It's kind of like that.
    - brudgers 5y ago
      I apologize for mischaracterizing your experience. I am sorry. I hope you are healing.
- 5y ago

maybelsyrup 5y ago

> First, if you’re suicidal, WhatsApp me at +1[...] I'm not sure this is something this person should be saying. Not a lawyer but I'd want to talk to one about liability issues in putting that out on the internet. Even for trained professionals, "if this is an emergency, please call 911" is pretty much SOP for actively suicidal people. Not saying it's not a laudable sentiment, either - if anything we need more people willing to talk about this stuff with strangers. But the law may put one in a weird position here - and even beyond that, this is America, where everyone sues everyone else. Suppose this guy talks to someone, that person offs themselves, and then their family comes knocking, wondering what happened on that phone call?

wayeq 5y ago
i've volunteered quite a bit on prevention lines. he absolutely should not be asking potentially suicidal people to WhatsApp him. if you're not trained you can have the best intentions and still bring about the worst outcome.
- borepop 5y ago
  Unhappy humans have been speaking to other humans for thousands of years without anybody setting up arbitrary "trainings" about it and meaningless certifications that allow us to pretend that we can stave off the psychological chaos involved in being alive. I think it will be okay. And even if it's not okay, it already wasn't okay in the first place.
  - loriverkutya 5y ago
    Based on your comment I think you don’t understand what’s the difference on being unhappy and being suicidal.

b20000 5y ago

I've been dealing with depression off and on for a good 10 years now. My company was almost completely destroyed by nepotism and corruption and bad investors, beyond my control. This was back in Europe. I've tried to get traditional help (talking) and although I thought it was working I realized later on I was convincing myself it was working, while it was not, and that the person helping me would never understand me as a founder or understand what it is to start a business and then see it being destroyed at the point it is about to become really successful. They would never understand the endless hours someone spends on writing every single line of code, spending all savings, and the endless anxiety that comes with all that. I've looked around for specialized help but it doesn't seem to exist. Most founders are too busy to really talk about it, and the one psychologist/therapist I did find who is familiar with the tech world was going to be too expensive for me to afford, and was not in my health care network. What we really need IMHO is a specialized non profit that deals with mental health issues of founders, perhaps run by a variety of ex-founders, both those who were succesful and those who were not.

robocat 5y ago
Do you think the years of effort founders put in is psychologically distinct from the years of devotion people put into other things that can result in crushing disappoint like marriages, jobs, children, religion or sports?
- b20000 5y ago
  I have no idea about other people's struggles, just sharing my story here and why I feel there is not enough being done for founders specifically. The things you list are things that most psychologists or therapists have experience with, and that is my point.
markdjacobsen 5y ago
I'm a two-time failed founder. The first was a humanitarian drone nonprofit, and the second was a software development team internal to government. The first failure absolutely wrecked me. Your comment resonated because nothing prepared me for the unique experiences and traumas of presiding over a startup failure. I truly felt like I was on my own, trying to navigate the prolonged journey through failure, healing, and renewal. I ended up writing a book to help other failed founders, titled "Eating Glass: The Inner Journey Through Failure and Renewal." Book here [0] and 60-pg sample here [1]. I plan to share it via "Show HN" soon, but given your plea for resources, I'd love to send you a free digital copy. Just send me an email address at mark@markdjacobsen.com. My passion with this book is really just to help other failed founders on their journeys. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Eating-Glass-Journey-Through-Failure/dp/1736402803/ https://www.amazon.com/Eating-Glass-Journey-Through-Failure/... [1] https://markdjacobsen.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Eating-Glass-Sample.pdf https://markdjacobsen.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Eating-...

smackeyacky 5y ago

Here is what happened on my journey so far - will try to keep it short but it might help somebody else in the same boat. I wasn't enjoying my job (as an employee) - the biggest problem I had was a nagging feeling that the people in the industry I was working in were setting an agenda that farmers would simply never be able to follow. I was actually suffering from depression but I didn't know it at the time. I had a huge argument with my boss and quit. I had been working on the product for a little while but didn't really have anything concrete. Within a couple of months of resigning I had an MVP and a co-founder. We managed to get a little VC funding and went on the startup adventure. Turned out the co-founder was a complete fraud. He was supposed to be my hardware guy (I was software) but he didn't know anything about hardware that I didn't already know. He couldn't even read a circuit diagram. I was kind of stuck at that stage, we were overseas developing the product and I thought rather stupidly I could get him to fit in doing something else. He was useless at everything. Couldn't write a program to save his life, didn't understand the product designers, couldn't help with anything. I eventually had to sideline him into doing things like grant applications and whatnot which he did manage to finish although it took a few arguments every time to get him to finish anything. I set a pretty punishing schedule for the field trials. It was a whirlwind really, lots of travel, got everything working despite having to drag that useless turd all over the place. A couple of years ago he quit and became a massive PITA while we tried to get the legal stuff sorted out to cancel his unvested shares - another long story of his stupidity and various own goals. Anyway, shortly after he quit we did have customers and revenue and it looked like it had some momentum but I contracted a little illness over that Christmas and found myself unable to get out of bed and was at divorce level with my long suffering wife. It was bad. I had contemplated steering the car over a few ravines. That undiagnosed depression took a massive hold on me. I went to the doctor who was instantly understanding of the utter despair I was in at the time. He referred me to a psychologist who set me on a path of recovery. It isn't always easy and that mood occasionally re-appears (especially after you get knocked back by another investor) but I feel like I have the tools and the understanding to keep it more or less in check. The funny thing about that period of depression was that it was the most focused and creative period of my 50 year life. I wrote some really excellent code, built an entire system from firmware up to server software and it worked the very first time we tried it on animals. The first time. An incredible achievement that I am not sure I would have been able to complete without the focus and creativity that the depression was a part of. So I'm kind of ambivalent about episodes of depression being entirely destructive, they weren't for me.

RHSman2 5y ago

As a sort of failed founder I think the hardest thing is the resilient loneliness. You build this castle in your psyche and have to implement it in real life and no one knows the full picture. Initially super exciting and then reality. I 100% understand why suicide is a very real option without good support.

topicseed 5y ago
Not failing myself, although running a simple one-man show, but loneliness is indeed the hardest part. And I'm rather distanced myself naturally. Tried meetups... Too much posturing and no vulnerability. Tried online groups... Too digital. Very curious to see how people handle that loneliness. It's terribly hard at times.
- dsign 5y ago
  Don't seek other founders, we are a boring bunch--for the most part--and too hectic. Also they will induce anxiety in you. Online games changed my life when I was deep in/under the valley of startup desperation. I met people I could talk about non-work things. Or whom I could joke with about my job. That also helped, trying to see the funny side of the harsh life of a company founder from the outside. That was four years ago. Company is doing better than ever these days, not particularly thanks to me. And I don't feel too lonely these days. Another thing that worked for a friend of mine: writing fiction. He says his characters live in his mind, like he is the hardware running the world of his books, so he never feels alone. And he also gets to interact a lot with fellow writers in the real world. Fiction writers are a very different bunch than software developers, it seems, they are more concerned about people feelings and such.
  - RHSman2 5y ago
    Yeah, it is important to get grounded. Friends, activities, sport which seems of secondary importance but in the long run primary. I found climbing to be the best of all things. It shut my mind down (as I was very focused!)

freediver 5y ago

Not sure if the advice from the article is applicable (paraphrasing: "if too much, quit". By that time you are in too many obligations to too many people). Here is different advice instead. Do not raise VC money if you can. Bootstrap and enjoy the process of building and discovery even if it ends up being a smaller thing. As Shatner says, at the end it all does not matter. Stay independent, stay free, stay focused and stay true to yourself.

freediver 5y ago
Edit: Bootstrapping does not need to be a "smaller thing" necessarily. Last time I bootstrapped something it ended as an 8 digit acquisition (of which I owned 100%). It is the same outcome as a 9 digit acquisition where you own a single digit equity percentage. Not to mention the lack of any depression because the process is by definition focused on yourself and your capabilities. You pace it any way you want. You make it as challenging as you want it to be.

elietoubi 5y ago

The problem is that most founder think that they need to be miserable to be successful.

lazharichir 5y ago
Not true in my opinion. It's mostly that what is perceived as success may be birthed out of sacrifices, compromises, and loneliness. Many bootstrappers I know have managed to be successful but lost loved ones whilst getting there. It does. It have to be this way, but it often takes obsessive behaviour for many to get results. And that's just unhealthy, whether you succeed or fail.

Richardson412 5y ago

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bumbada 5y ago

I was raised in Spain. We have the opposite problem. The catholic culture is "nothing is your responsibility", even things that clearly are. It is Mt 6,24-34 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money. “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear." It just doesn't make sense for me to suicide because my business fails. There will always be an excuse and failure is just not that important. In the protestant culture, it is the opposite, "everything is your responsibility", even things that clearly are not. "success" and "failure" are sacred words, like "winners" or "losers". And life is about competition and individualism, even in teams. I have helped refugees and drug addicts. I would never have the temptation to call them(or think about them as) "losers", but I have seen people in the US call them this word. It is a good idea that you expose yourself to different cultures so you could see through and take what is good for each one. Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages.

khazhoux 5y ago

Although I recognize the author's best intentions, the narrative of founders being somehow "special" never sits right with me. Yes, the founder/CEO has the responsibility of the entire company on their shoulders, but everyone else has their own world on their shoulders, too. It's not only the founder who has a dream, who wants to accomplish great things, who will beat themselves up when they fail. Paul Simon, American Tune: | And I don't know a soul who's not been battered | I don't have a friend who feels at ease | I don't know a dream that's not been shattered | Or driven to its knees

lkrubner 5y ago

My former business partner deals with the stress by smoking a lot of weed, which may or may not have affected the presentations he gives in public. You can judge for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8znQZ1RUckg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8znQZ1RUckg More generally, some combination of fundraising plus Ted Talks (and other venues that look for speakers who have something "visionary" to say) gives everyone an incentive to develop an aesthetic of being "visionary". It's not healthy. This is very much what I tried to parody in my comedy: https://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Really-Terrible-Dating-ebook/dp/B096RDX91M/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=how+to+build+a+really+terrible+dating+app&qid=1624014448&sr=8-3 https://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Really-Terrible-Dating-eboo...

lgvld 5y ago
> You can judge for yourself: I don’t know what to think... but I checked the video after reading your comment and... I laughed. ;-) He send good vibes though.

dennis_jeeves 5y ago

To add to the depression - as they say it's lonely 'up' there. (even if the organization that you founded is doing well financially and well past it's founding stage.)

jdbiggs 5y ago

Hey guys. I wrote this. If you need help ask someone for it and if you’re too cool to get help good luck.

danbmil99 5y ago

As a serial founder/ employee number 2 or 3, I'm seriously addicted to early startup. Plus I'm older than most of y'all so the hiring thing is even harder. What I did to remain viable in the periods between startups is, I got really good at a couple technical things that are in high demand and I consult, for small startups who just raised money and really need something to work. So far my eccentric history seems intriguing to my clients and not a red flag as it would be for Faang. I suspect this strategy will continue to work as long as start-up capital is flooding the zone. Once there's a pullback, I'm likely to be in trouble. So of course I'm raising money again for another startup. Wish me luck.