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This is one of those weird things about American Democracy where everyone I speak to thinks the Drug War was a terrible thing and should be stopped. And yet, ou

This is one of those weird things about American Democracy where everyone I speak to thinks the Drug War was a terrible thing and should be stopped. And yet, our politicians never substantially do anything to change the status quo.

sjwalter 5y ago
Are you kidding me? The "war" on drugs today is nothing like it was at all in the 90s. For the most obvious example, marijuana is legal to purchase for recreational use in dozens of states, with more coming.
- MuffinFlavored 5y ago
  What do we need to do next that would have the biggest effect, decriminalize cocaine/crack cocaine?
  - dcolkitt 5y ago
    Legal and purity regulated heroin would have by far the biggest impact, because of the scourge of fentanyl deaths. If I had to choose between legal cannabis and legal heroin, I’d choose the latter on utilitarian grounds. (Although obviously I support both wholeheartedly.)
    - camjohnson26 5y ago
      Given how addictive heroin is how do people supporting decriminalization suggest dealing with hard core addicts that can’t afford the drug? Giving it away for free in a clinic, hospitalizing hardcore users, letting legal dealers take on the risks directly?
      - samatman 5y ago
        A one-sentence summary of my policy goal is "make sure all addicts get heroin, from a place where they have access to help in quitting if they can". So any dispensary would have addiction specialists on hand, anyone getting heroin would have a card and a database. "Casual" and light users would pay, a known hard-case addict with limited means would get it subsidized or free. The goal is primarily to kick the bottom out of the black market, with a close second being keeping addicts healthy and alive, where quitting heroin is the best case scenario.
      - vlowther 5y ago
        Legalize it and let "hardcore" heroin addicts get a prescription. It is expensive due to it being illegal and the willingness of addicts to pay damn near anything, not due to any intrinsic difficulty in manufacturing.
      - pmoriarty 5y ago
        "Given how addictive heroin is how do people supporting decriminalization suggest dealing with hard core addicts that can’t afford the drug?" Cigarettes are even more addictive, and yet we aren't freaking out and throwing cigarette smokers in jail.
      - greedo 5y ago
        I don't know the solution to this, but I'm open to trying anything other than the failed police policies we've been repeating for what seems like forever. One of my nieces died from heart failure last year. She had been living on the street and been a hard core drug user. I can't say that it was heroin that killed her, because like most street users, she took anything she could get her hands on. But her heroin addiction was what kept her on the street. She had been through treatment more times than I can count. None helped for very long. In the end, she's dead at 29, a life completely wasted. Would legalized heroin with clean needles have saved her? Don't know. But our current system sure didn't.
    - TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
      I definitely wouldn't support the legalization of heroin. We already have alternatives(kratom, suboxone) that are legal and have far less abuse potential. Not all drugs are the same, we shouldn't act like they are.
      - dasv 5y ago
        Well, we have already tried that with methadone clinics. To compete with the black market it needs to be the same product.
        TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
        Yeah, and lots of people used methadone successfully. I don't want there to be stiff market competition in the addictive substances market. We already did that with tobacco and still haven't fully phased that out.
      - vidarh 5y ago
        And yet the ongoing use of heroin demonstrates that this does not work well enough and condemns people to suffering or death.
    - cwkoss 5y ago
      Another option is to legalize buprenorphine so it can be distributed cheaply over the counter without prescription. It outcompetes receptors to exclude heroin and is often prescribed for heroin cessation. If heroin addicts had an easy option to not feel sick without that was cheaper and more available than heroin, I believe many would take it, and the heroin market would shrink - leading to lesser availability and fewer future addicts.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - banannaise 5y ago
    Finish decriminalizing weed. Repeal the federal possession prohibition, repeal the remaining possession/"open container" laws, exclude it from drug testing programs, release people currently in prison for cannabis offenses.
- anoonmoose 5y ago
  Seriously, the changes we've gone through in some states are massive. In college, a guy I worked with lost his job because someone he was with possessed marijuana. The guy I knew didn't have anything and wasn't charged with anything, but he lost his job with the university just the same. As of July 1, none of them would have gotten in any trouble; as of next year, they'd be able to legally buy the substance. This is a massive change.
frakkingcylons 5y ago
At a federal level, perhaps not much is changing. But in the past decade, many states have been decriminalizing or legalizing recreational sale of certain drugs.
throwaway6734 5y ago
People's opinions on things are fickle and it takes time for things to happen sometimes especially for issues that don't really effect how people vote.
dcolkitt 5y ago
You almost certainly occupy a bubble in this. I hate the War on Drugs with every fiber in my being, but it’s broadly popular. Cannabis legalization may recently be popular. But I’d be shocked if more than 5% of Americans supported the legalization hard drugs, and if more than 20% supported by Portuguese style decriminalization. Even soft drug prohibition, like MDMA and LSD, are supported by sizable majorities of voters.
- himinlomax 5y ago
  Decriminalization and legalization are different things.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  >but it’s broadly popular. In a "twist words, give people 4 option multiple choice and count 3 of them as support" sort of way. The illegality of trafficking hard drugs is broadly supported and it goes down from there.
- slownews45 5y ago
  Even Cannabis legalization may get rolled back a bit I think, there's been a bit of a backlash locally where I around it.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    I'd like to hear more about this backlash. What form does it take, and where?
  - annoyingnoob 5y ago
    Where I live cannabis legalization seems to be a huge win. Cities that were against it are now looking for ways to bring it in for the tax revenue. We had illegal but ever present cannabis, then we had medical cannabis, we had whatever problems there may be from cannabis my whole life. Now we have fewer criminals and more tax revenue - help alleviate the problems.
- vsareto 5y ago
  I think we'll eventually find a balance point, but these boundaries are being moved in the opposite direction. Psilocybin decriminalization then recreational use seems like the next leg of the race after federal/all-state legalization of marijuana. Then the next thing to be pushed is only a little more controversial than psilocybin. I doubt we'll ever reach that point with cocaine or heroin though and they'll never be up for medical/recreational consideration. If it seems unbelievable that there could be significant support for the War on Drugs, remember how many voted for Trump the second time around.
spamizbad 5y ago
The median American voter is a 50 year old suburban home owner (and the median midterm voter is even older and wealthier). These people still support the war on drugs, although probably not at the same levels as before.
Gibbon1 5y ago
The sway voters have on the policies politicians promote is nil. The people they do pay attention too either have no personal vested interest in stopping the drug war. Or have a vested interest in keeping it going.

sjwalter 5y ago

Are you kidding me? The "war" on drugs today is nothing like it was at all in the 90s. For the most obvious example, marijuana is legal to purchase for recreational use in dozens of states, with more coming.

MuffinFlavored 5y ago
What do we need to do next that would have the biggest effect, decriminalize cocaine/crack cocaine?
- dcolkitt 5y ago
  Legal and purity regulated heroin would have by far the biggest impact, because of the scourge of fentanyl deaths. If I had to choose between legal cannabis and legal heroin, I’d choose the latter on utilitarian grounds. (Although obviously I support both wholeheartedly.)
  - camjohnson26 5y ago
    Given how addictive heroin is how do people supporting decriminalization suggest dealing with hard core addicts that can’t afford the drug? Giving it away for free in a clinic, hospitalizing hardcore users, letting legal dealers take on the risks directly?
    - samatman 5y ago
      A one-sentence summary of my policy goal is "make sure all addicts get heroin, from a place where they have access to help in quitting if they can". So any dispensary would have addiction specialists on hand, anyone getting heroin would have a card and a database. "Casual" and light users would pay, a known hard-case addict with limited means would get it subsidized or free. The goal is primarily to kick the bottom out of the black market, with a close second being keeping addicts healthy and alive, where quitting heroin is the best case scenario.
    - vlowther 5y ago
      Legalize it and let "hardcore" heroin addicts get a prescription. It is expensive due to it being illegal and the willingness of addicts to pay damn near anything, not due to any intrinsic difficulty in manufacturing.
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      "Given how addictive heroin is how do people supporting decriminalization suggest dealing with hard core addicts that can’t afford the drug?" Cigarettes are even more addictive, and yet we aren't freaking out and throwing cigarette smokers in jail.
    - greedo 5y ago
      I don't know the solution to this, but I'm open to trying anything other than the failed police policies we've been repeating for what seems like forever. One of my nieces died from heart failure last year. She had been living on the street and been a hard core drug user. I can't say that it was heroin that killed her, because like most street users, she took anything she could get her hands on. But her heroin addiction was what kept her on the street. She had been through treatment more times than I can count. None helped for very long. In the end, she's dead at 29, a life completely wasted. Would legalized heroin with clean needles have saved her? Don't know. But our current system sure didn't.
  - TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
    I definitely wouldn't support the legalization of heroin. We already have alternatives(kratom, suboxone) that are legal and have far less abuse potential. Not all drugs are the same, we shouldn't act like they are.
    - dasv 5y ago
      Well, we have already tried that with methadone clinics. To compete with the black market it needs to be the same product.
      - TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
        Yeah, and lots of people used methadone successfully. I don't want there to be stiff market competition in the addictive substances market. We already did that with tobacco and still haven't fully phased that out.
    - vidarh 5y ago
      And yet the ongoing use of heroin demonstrates that this does not work well enough and condemns people to suffering or death.
  - cwkoss 5y ago
    Another option is to legalize buprenorphine so it can be distributed cheaply over the counter without prescription. It outcompetes receptors to exclude heroin and is often prescribed for heroin cessation. If heroin addicts had an easy option to not feel sick without that was cheaper and more available than heroin, I believe many would take it, and the heroin market would shrink - leading to lesser availability and fewer future addicts.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- banannaise 5y ago
  Finish decriminalizing weed. Repeal the federal possession prohibition, repeal the remaining possession/"open container" laws, exclude it from drug testing programs, release people currently in prison for cannabis offenses.
anoonmoose 5y ago
Seriously, the changes we've gone through in some states are massive. In college, a guy I worked with lost his job because someone he was with possessed marijuana. The guy I knew didn't have anything and wasn't charged with anything, but he lost his job with the university just the same. As of July 1, none of them would have gotten in any trouble; as of next year, they'd be able to legally buy the substance. This is a massive change.

frakkingcylons 5y ago

At a federal level, perhaps not much is changing. But in the past decade, many states have been decriminalizing or legalizing recreational sale of certain drugs.

throwaway6734 5y ago

People's opinions on things are fickle and it takes time for things to happen sometimes especially for issues that don't really effect how people vote.

dcolkitt 5y ago

You almost certainly occupy a bubble in this. I hate the War on Drugs with every fiber in my being, but it’s broadly popular. Cannabis legalization may recently be popular. But I’d be shocked if more than 5% of Americans supported the legalization hard drugs, and if more than 20% supported by Portuguese style decriminalization. Even soft drug prohibition, like MDMA and LSD, are supported by sizable majorities of voters.

himinlomax 5y ago
Decriminalization and legalization are different things.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>but it’s broadly popular. In a "twist words, give people 4 option multiple choice and count 3 of them as support" sort of way. The illegality of trafficking hard drugs is broadly supported and it goes down from there.
slownews45 5y ago
Even Cannabis legalization may get rolled back a bit I think, there's been a bit of a backlash locally where I around it.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  I'd like to hear more about this backlash. What form does it take, and where?
- annoyingnoob 5y ago
  Where I live cannabis legalization seems to be a huge win. Cities that were against it are now looking for ways to bring it in for the tax revenue. We had illegal but ever present cannabis, then we had medical cannabis, we had whatever problems there may be from cannabis my whole life. Now we have fewer criminals and more tax revenue - help alleviate the problems.
vsareto 5y ago
I think we'll eventually find a balance point, but these boundaries are being moved in the opposite direction. Psilocybin decriminalization then recreational use seems like the next leg of the race after federal/all-state legalization of marijuana. Then the next thing to be pushed is only a little more controversial than psilocybin. I doubt we'll ever reach that point with cocaine or heroin though and they'll never be up for medical/recreational consideration. If it seems unbelievable that there could be significant support for the War on Drugs, remember how many voted for Trump the second time around.

spamizbad 5y ago

The median American voter is a 50 year old suburban home owner (and the median midterm voter is even older and wealthier). These people still support the war on drugs, although probably not at the same levels as before.

Gibbon1 5y ago

The sway voters have on the policies politicians promote is nil. The people they do pay attention too either have no personal vested interest in stopping the drug war. Or have a vested interest in keeping it going.