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Most places recognize something called a "mechanics lien" that means the police won't get your car back either. Workmen usually have a legal claim to property t

Most places recognize something called a "mechanics lien" that means the police won't get your car back either. Workmen usually have a legal claim to property that they worked on and have not been paid for. Sometimes it requires specific paperwork (more often with real property, e.g. a contractor can place a lien on your house but usually needs you to agree to it before they start work) but often it's implicit. I guess my point here is that this is a scenario with specific legal backing that goes way back into history, which smart contracts don't really have.

jessriedel 5y ago
Yes, of course the reality and usefulness of this particular mechanism has now been legally acknowledged and incorporated into the law in some (but not all) places. But mechanisms like this arise organically and are put to use long before they are officially recognized. I expect similar things to happen with smart contracts. In other words: things you might call "evading the law" in fact can be useful and then shape the law. If we were to adopt a principle like "anything that looks like it's trying to evade the law must be dismantled", we'd be worse off.
- jboy55 5y ago
  Strange emphasis on 'now'. From wiki, "Mechanic's liens in their modern form were first conceived by Thomas Jefferson, to encourage construction in the new capital city of Washington. They were established by the Maryland General Assembly, of which the city of Washington was then a part.[1] However, it is not likely that Jefferson single-handedly dreamed up the idea. At the time Jefferson promoted the law, a lien-like privilege already existed in civil law countries like France, the Dutch Republic and Spain, with some laws even tracing their roots to the Roman Empire. And since control of Louisiana had passed between the French and Spaniards, and had largely adopted the French Napoleonic Code, there was a similar privilege concept in that territory."
  - jessriedel 5y ago
    It's not strange at all because "now" does not assert "in the past few years" or something. It's just in contrast to when the technique was first developed. Like, do you think there was a long-standing issue with people not paying their bills because the liens weren't enshrined in law, and a bunch of clever legislators got the brilliant idea to introduce it? No! It's been happening since before laws were written down, and the formal laws were crafted to fit this existing custom.
    - jboy55 5y ago
      Maybe you are mistaking what a lien is. A lien isn't when someone takes possession until they are paid, but a legal debt attached to the object in which the person attaching the lien claims partial ownership of that property until the debt has been paid. It does not require possession of the object. A mechanic can place a lien on your house for no payment. It 100% exists in law and requires the debt to be written down.

jessriedel 5y ago

Yes, of course the reality and usefulness of this particular mechanism has now been legally acknowledged and incorporated into the law in some (but not all) places. But mechanisms like this arise organically and are put to use long before they are officially recognized. I expect similar things to happen with smart contracts. In other words: things you might call "evading the law" in fact can be useful and then shape the law. If we were to adopt a principle like "anything that looks like it's trying to evade the law must be dismantled", we'd be worse off.

jboy55 5y ago
Strange emphasis on 'now'. From wiki, "Mechanic's liens in their modern form were first conceived by Thomas Jefferson, to encourage construction in the new capital city of Washington. They were established by the Maryland General Assembly, of which the city of Washington was then a part.[1] However, it is not likely that Jefferson single-handedly dreamed up the idea. At the time Jefferson promoted the law, a lien-like privilege already existed in civil law countries like France, the Dutch Republic and Spain, with some laws even tracing their roots to the Roman Empire. And since control of Louisiana had passed between the French and Spaniards, and had largely adopted the French Napoleonic Code, there was a similar privilege concept in that territory."
- jessriedel 5y ago
  It's not strange at all because "now" does not assert "in the past few years" or something. It's just in contrast to when the technique was first developed. Like, do you think there was a long-standing issue with people not paying their bills because the liens weren't enshrined in law, and a bunch of clever legislators got the brilliant idea to introduce it? No! It's been happening since before laws were written down, and the formal laws were crafted to fit this existing custom.
  - jboy55 5y ago
    Maybe you are mistaking what a lien is. A lien isn't when someone takes possession until they are paid, but a legal debt attached to the object in which the person attaching the lien claims partial ownership of that property until the debt has been paid. It does not require possession of the object. A mechanic can place a lien on your house for no payment. It 100% exists in law and requires the debt to be written down.