4 ms·

> I read somewhere that 40% of restaurants started by people with no previous industry experience go belly up within 5 years? Something like that. I imagine one

> I read somewhere that 40% of restaurants started by people with no previous industry experience go belly up within 5 years? Something like that. I imagine one could easily spend $400,000 setting up a restaurant and working 14 hour days and ultimately not be successful Absolutely agree with this and everything you said here. I think the only thing I see differently is that while someone should have some relevant experience before starting an ISP (or any business) is that it doesn't necessarily have to be networking. For example, some of the biggest challenges I've seen WISPs face as they try to grow are: obtaining lease agreements for wireless relay sites, hiring and training technicians in large numbers, and in logistics around keeping stuff in stock that they need to grow. Someone with experience from a different industry in some of those areas might do just as well as someone with networking experience. EDIT TO ADD: One of things I find kind of difficult to communicate with people who are interested in it is that it's just another business, and doesn't really have any better or worse odds of succeeding beyond a few years and making money than any other business, including restaurants. People sometimes seem surprised that you can make money at this, but, of course you can! You can also make money running a taco truck or building custom furniture. But you can also lose a lot of money and time.

walrus01 5y ago
I also totally agree that a lot of the challenges are not exactly 'network engineer' related, trying to run a small WISP has so many other things that aren't what you would find in CCNA/CCIE study materials or similar. One can feel much more confident in what they're doing once they have a real firm grasp of BGP, OSPF, various types of MPLS, metro ethernet stuff, optical networking, ptp microwave, linux sysadmin stuff for operational support systems and so on, but that's only one piece of the puzzle of many business process related things to cover.
- hhw 5y ago
  This is not imperative to do in-house. My company (*shameless plug for Astute Internet) has expertise in those areas you describe, and will provide and/or support the edge network infrastructure for small ISP's in exchange for selling them some of those services (we're a mini-carrier and value added reseller) and charging a nominal retainer to be an available path of escalation 24/7. Due to our purchasing volume and industry knowledge, we are able to sell these services for the same or less than what our customers would be able to negotiate on their own, while getting a lot of support from us in the process. Although this type of knowledge and expertise is rather specialized, we are able to focus on these specific areas without getting involved in the intricacies of the downstream side of our clients' networks, thus avoiding the need for us to have too much client specific or institutional knowledge. This has worked out very well with the handful of eyeball networks we're currently working with in the Pacific Northwest, and we intend to more actively extend this line of business down the coast in the near future.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tinus_hn 5y ago
A big difference is that you’re selling a service only and a service that is really difficult to differentiate yourself in. A big player could swoop in and obliterate you in a second.
- kbenson 5y ago
  Yes and no. Big players will react and offer special deals to people in an area to keep them and lock them in for another year or more if they perceive your ISP as a threat, but if you offer reliable service and good speed and good support, you can eat their lunch. The problem is that to be competitive you might be looking at years to break even on investment depending on what you offer and where, and how you deliver it. Running fiber on poles to deliver 1gig or 10gig? The buildout is expensive, you have to target dense areas or buildings with lots of units, and even then it's a lot of up-front money and it will be a while before you're out of the red even with a good takeup rate.
- phreack 5y ago
  How do you mean? Outside most major cities, ISPs tend to monopolize the playing field and there is great demand for cheaper or more personalized service. Having good customer relations would be a major differentiator, and it's not that hard. Unless you meant obliteration by lobbying, lawsuits or something similar. There's little hope if your competition goes that route.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    You can’t compete with large ISPs on price. They can easily undercut your price for a few years until you’re gone. And a lot of people don’t really chose their provider for ‘good customer service’, they chose fast and cheap. If you’ve set up in an area that a big ISP suddenly sees as profit potential you’re toast.

walrus01 5y ago

I also totally agree that a lot of the challenges are not exactly 'network engineer' related, trying to run a small WISP has so many other things that aren't what you would find in CCNA/CCIE study materials or similar. One can feel much more confident in what they're doing once they have a real firm grasp of BGP, OSPF, various types of MPLS, metro ethernet stuff, optical networking, ptp microwave, linux sysadmin stuff for operational support systems and so on, but that's only one piece of the puzzle of many business process related things to cover.

hhw 5y ago
This is not imperative to do in-house. My company (*shameless plug for Astute Internet) has expertise in those areas you describe, and will provide and/or support the edge network infrastructure for small ISP's in exchange for selling them some of those services (we're a mini-carrier and value added reseller) and charging a nominal retainer to be an available path of escalation 24/7. Due to our purchasing volume and industry knowledge, we are able to sell these services for the same or less than what our customers would be able to negotiate on their own, while getting a lot of support from us in the process. Although this type of knowledge and expertise is rather specialized, we are able to focus on these specific areas without getting involved in the intricacies of the downstream side of our clients' networks, thus avoiding the need for us to have too much client specific or institutional knowledge. This has worked out very well with the handful of eyeball networks we're currently working with in the Pacific Northwest, and we intend to more actively extend this line of business down the coast in the near future.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

tinus_hn 5y ago

A big difference is that you’re selling a service only and a service that is really difficult to differentiate yourself in. A big player could swoop in and obliterate you in a second.

kbenson 5y ago
Yes and no. Big players will react and offer special deals to people in an area to keep them and lock them in for another year or more if they perceive your ISP as a threat, but if you offer reliable service and good speed and good support, you can eat their lunch. The problem is that to be competitive you might be looking at years to break even on investment depending on what you offer and where, and how you deliver it. Running fiber on poles to deliver 1gig or 10gig? The buildout is expensive, you have to target dense areas or buildings with lots of units, and even then it's a lot of up-front money and it will be a while before you're out of the red even with a good takeup rate.
phreack 5y ago
How do you mean? Outside most major cities, ISPs tend to monopolize the playing field and there is great demand for cheaper or more personalized service. Having good customer relations would be a major differentiator, and it's not that hard. Unless you meant obliteration by lobbying, lawsuits or something similar. There's little hope if your competition goes that route.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  You can’t compete with large ISPs on price. They can easily undercut your price for a few years until you’re gone. And a lot of people don’t really chose their provider for ‘good customer service’, they chose fast and cheap. If you’ve set up in an area that a big ISP suddenly sees as profit potential you’re toast.