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Maybe I was unclear. I'm not saying nobody hears voices (I believe most people do although because of conversations on this very site I actually came to believ

Maybe I was unclear. I'm not saying nobody hears voices (I believe most people do although because of conversations on this very site I actually came to believe some people don't), I'm saying not everybody has a miniature village in their head they navigate to make everyday decisions. I apologize if I'm misinterpreting your comment, but that was how I took it. I certainly have conversations in my head, but not everything is an imaginary conversation with someone that somehow represents society. Sometimes there's no conversation at all. > Do you ever hear your mom’s voice or your dad’s voice? If not their voice, their words telling you to do something or not do something? I honestly can't remember the last time this happened. I would guess it's been a very long time. > If you never or rarely hear any of these people, does it follow that your behaviour just springs forth of its own accord, an original choreography generated in the moment by your original machinery? Usually there is an internal conversation, which I believe is the larger point you're trying to get at. Sometimes though I think without words, simply navigating feelings without any sort of dialogue. My original comment was a poorly worded criticism of how you made it seem more like a village, but even so there are people who actually don't have these internal conversations at all (or at least that's what they claim but having spoken to them I believe them).

wombatmobile 5y ago
> My original comment was a poorly worded criticism of how you made it seem more like a village I found your comment entirely valid and clearly expressed. There is no evidence for my speculation except introspection, since we cannot decode brain structures or thoughts into objective data. If the thought had never occurred to you before, there's no obvious reason on the face of it why you should buy this theory. What's difficult about the introspection, in this case, is that the evidence is not explicit. It must be inferred. Few people hear voice commands which then dictate their behaviour. Rather, we all just somehow make decisions about what we are going to do and say, and it feels like it springs out of our own "free will", or "self" or whatever you like to call it. We don't consciously experience the shaping of our behaviour by our knowledge of our immediate society - the internal negotiations I am claiming. But look at the clothes you are wearing. Do they look similar to other people in your demographic cohort and geographic area? Or do they more closely resemble the clothes that someone 10,000 miles away might have chosen to wear today? Do you tuck your shirt in? Do up your fly? Comb your hair? If you do any of those things regularly, I imagine you do them with practically zero conscious thought. Is that the case? But where do those behaviours come from? Can you remember? Do you shoot hoops or drive a manual car? Were the behaviours you use for those activities given to you innately, or did you acquire them through instruction? Assuming the latter, do you consciously recall the instructions each time you practice those behaviours, or do they "just happen"? Have you ever said "bullshit" out loud? Have you ever written "I don't buy this theory"? Those last two are different thoughts, more than just their nuance, wouldn't you agree? Just consider them for a moment. When does the former thought spring to mind? The latter? For the same stimulus, would your response vary depending on whether you were in the company of (a) strangers on a bus; (b) a job interview committee; (c) a famous professor; (d) a powerful venture capitalist; (e) a gorgeous woman or man approximately the same age as you?; (f) a vagabond huckster who accosted you on the street?; (g) some commenter on HN?; (h) some well respected commenter on HN with enormous karma? To experience the whole village in action, try this thought experiment. Your employer, W, unexpectedly files for bankruptcy in a blaze of publicity as its founders are arrested and charged with fraud by the SEC. Next Monday, you receive three unsolicited job offers, from X, Y, and the prestigious university, Z. None of these job offers immediately stands out as your dream job, but all seem worthy of consideration. Which, if any, of the job offers will you accept? How long will it take you to make your decision with confidence? If your answer to the last question was more than 24 hours, consider what processes you are relying on to make your decision. You've allowed yourself at least one nights sleep. What happens during that sleep that doesn't happen in the moments after you finish reading all of the job offers? I speculate that your brain goes through a process of "consultation" with all the virtual models of the 150 or so humans who are significant to you in your social world. It presents a new model of your "self", with the attributes of the new job - identity, income, location, status, perks - to each of the people in your social database. What would your best friend tell you to choose? You probably have a good idea. What would your parents tell you to choose? You probably have a good idea. What would your teacher tell you to choose? You may have some idea, and you may care more or less. What would the baker and the candlestick maker think of you when they hear your choice? You may have a vague idea, and you may care more or less, but all these people's opinions add up. It takes time for your brain to collate the information, through a particular process amongst particular data structures. I think this is what happens when you make a decision of this sort with social implications, which is why these decisions take time.

wombatmobile 5y ago

> My original comment was a poorly worded criticism of how you made it seem more like a village I found your comment entirely valid and clearly expressed. There is no evidence for my speculation except introspection, since we cannot decode brain structures or thoughts into objective data. If the thought had never occurred to you before, there's no obvious reason on the face of it why you should buy this theory. What's difficult about the introspection, in this case, is that the evidence is not explicit. It must be inferred. Few people hear voice commands which then dictate their behaviour. Rather, we all just somehow make decisions about what we are going to do and say, and it feels like it springs out of our own "free will", or "self" or whatever you like to call it. We don't consciously experience the shaping of our behaviour by our knowledge of our immediate society - the internal negotiations I am claiming. But look at the clothes you are wearing. Do they look similar to other people in your demographic cohort and geographic area? Or do they more closely resemble the clothes that someone 10,000 miles away might have chosen to wear today? Do you tuck your shirt in? Do up your fly? Comb your hair? If you do any of those things regularly, I imagine you do them with practically zero conscious thought. Is that the case? But where do those behaviours come from? Can you remember? Do you shoot hoops or drive a manual car? Were the behaviours you use for those activities given to you innately, or did you acquire them through instruction? Assuming the latter, do you consciously recall the instructions each time you practice those behaviours, or do they "just happen"? Have you ever said "bullshit" out loud? Have you ever written "I don't buy this theory"? Those last two are different thoughts, more than just their nuance, wouldn't you agree? Just consider them for a moment. When does the former thought spring to mind? The latter? For the same stimulus, would your response vary depending on whether you were in the company of (a) strangers on a bus; (b) a job interview committee; (c) a famous professor; (d) a powerful venture capitalist; (e) a gorgeous woman or man approximately the same age as you?; (f) a vagabond huckster who accosted you on the street?; (g) some commenter on HN?; (h) some well respected commenter on HN with enormous karma? To experience the whole village in action, try this thought experiment. Your employer, W, unexpectedly files for bankruptcy in a blaze of publicity as its founders are arrested and charged with fraud by the SEC. Next Monday, you receive three unsolicited job offers, from X, Y, and the prestigious university, Z. None of these job offers immediately stands out as your dream job, but all seem worthy of consideration. Which, if any, of the job offers will you accept? How long will it take you to make your decision with confidence? If your answer to the last question was more than 24 hours, consider what processes you are relying on to make your decision. You've allowed yourself at least one nights sleep. What happens during that sleep that doesn't happen in the moments after you finish reading all of the job offers? I speculate that your brain goes through a process of "consultation" with all the virtual models of the 150 or so humans who are significant to you in your social world. It presents a new model of your "self", with the attributes of the new job - identity, income, location, status, perks - to each of the people in your social database. What would your best friend tell you to choose? You probably have a good idea. What would your parents tell you to choose? You probably have a good idea. What would your teacher tell you to choose? You may have some idea, and you may care more or less. What would the baker and the candlestick maker think of you when they hear your choice? You may have a vague idea, and you may care more or less, but all these people's opinions add up. It takes time for your brain to collate the information, through a particular process amongst particular data structures. I think this is what happens when you make a decision of this sort with social implications, which is why these decisions take time.