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Hi folks, author of startyourownisp.com here. Not sure why we hit the front page today, but happy to be here! I'll try to hang around and answer questions for t

Hi folks, author of startyourownisp.com here. Not sure why we hit the front page today, but happy to be here! I'll try to hang around and answer questions for the next few hours. Thanks!

tomschlick 5y ago
It's probably in relation to the push to ban municipal ISPs in Ohio: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27538804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27538804
ignoramous 5y ago
Does SYOISP overlap (tech-wise) with the efforts of those at https://www.meshcenter.org/ https://www.meshcenter.org/ who are really trailblazing it in NYC and Baltimore? Also, is SYOISP closer to what https://starry.com/ https://starry.com/ has deployed? Thanks.
- grahamburger 5y ago
  Related in both cases. SYOISP describes what I, as a somewhat opinionated author, believe to be the absolute minimum amount of information required to build a business that can be called an ISP. To the extent that the companies involved in meshcenter.org and also Starry are ISPs, there is definitely overlap.
  - ignoramous 5y ago
    > SYOISP describes what I, as a somewhat opinionated author, believe to be the absolute minimum amount of information required to build a business that can be called an ISP. Thanks. Then, what'd you say are key differences between meshcenter.org and syoisp? Curious because meshcenter goes for maintainability and affordability too, from what I gather. Also, has Facebook's foray into the space with https://telecominfraproject.com https://telecominfraproject.com (and Google's too with https://opennetworking.org/ https://opennetworking.org/) change the landscape? They're going after 4G/5G like deployments, which is in sharp contrast with what starry and meshcenter are doing?
    - grahamburger 5y ago
      > Then, what'd you say are key differences between meshcenter.org and syoisp? No big differences, everything is applicable to both. In practice 'Mesh' has kind of become associated with 'non-profit, volunteer staff,' and SYOISP makes the implicit assumption of a for-profit entity. > Also, has Facebook's foray into the space with https://telecominfraproject.com https://telecominfraproject.com (and Google's too with https://opennetworking.org/ https://opennetworking.org/) change the landscape? They're going after 4G/5G like deployments, which is in sharp contrast with what starry and meshcenter are doing? Unsure yet what these efforts (and I'll add Microsoft's Airband) will amount too. I will say that I don't really see them tackling the actual hard parts of improving connectivity, which is primarily the actual building of physical infrastructure. I mean, other than Google obviously doing so with Google Fiber. Software can only get you so far in this effort, which is I think a lot of the reason that the incumbent providers have maintained such a stronghold over modern tech companies.
      - slut 5y ago
        I'm working on connectivity stuff at Facebook. Facebook is doing quite a bit more than just 4g/5g like deployments but the focus is primarily outside the US. We do have some public tools that I think are especially relevant to your effort: https://www.facebook.com/isptoolbox https://www.facebook.com/isptoolbox it's actively being worked on and there are many unreleased features in development but would be happy for any feedback too. Hope it's helpful.
        ignoramous 5y ago
        Are there any research papers or publications (like blogs) detailing Facebook's efforts in this space?
- ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
  >Also, is SYOISP closer to what https://starry.com/ https://starry.com/ has deployed? Probably not: >We designed every piece of hardware ourselves to ensure it works seamlessly to beam internet from the tops of towers to building receivers and right into your home without a hitch.
  - grahamburger 5y ago
    (author here) It's similar in architecture, if not in the actual hardware being deployed. FWIW my personal opinion (informed by personal experience) is that designing your own equipment is a huge distraction with little benefit. We'll see how it works out for Starry. As I understand Starry has moved to focus largely on apartments buildings and in-home WiFi (rather than residential Internet service to single-family homes.)
elliekelly 5y ago
Every time I’ve seen your site posted here or on reddit you’re always in the comments offering to help and answering questions so I just wanted to say major kudos to you for being so helpful and responsive. I’m sure it can’t be easy but you’re doing a great public service by sharing your knowledge.
- grahamburger 5y ago
  Thanks, appreciate the kind words. It did derail my plans a bit to hit HN this morning, but it's fun to chat about and HN has done a lot for me over the years!
burnished 5y ago
Is this a reasonable way to make some money? Or for people who are fed up with their ISP options and are ready to take matters into their own hands? Basically, who do you imagine the typical user of your guide is?
- grahamburger 5y ago
  > Or for people who are fed up with their ISP options and are ready to take matters into their own hands? Basically, who do you imagine the typical user of your guide is? If your only motivation is that you are fed up with your ISP (join the club!) that may not be enough. If you are fed up with your ISP, have a spare $25k laying around, and/or have access to grant money, then we should talk. (Many states have grant funding available today specifically for broadband projects in rural or underserved areas.) I do consulting work on these types of projects as my main gig now. Many of my customers own businesses in other industries, live in a small town, and decided that their Internet sucked and they want to fix it. But it does take some capital.
loxias 5y ago
Thanks for the article! Well written I think. I agree with the top post that if you're a engineer who hasn't dealt with low level networking stuff, worked in a DC, or had to be on call, this probably isn't a good first project. But golly, I can't wait to have the free time and capital to try starting one. (I live in a spectrum dominated area) Maybe try and make the whole operation solar powered. Also fun, for anyone else who's interested taking "DIY self hosting" to new extreme, it's possible to start your own cell phone company! I don't have a link handy, but search "starting an MVNO" will yield tons of links. When I did the math, it worked out to require only ~100 customers to hit break even. (assuming your time and labor is free, of course) I have unreasonably happy giggle-fit inducing day dreams about some day using my own designed and manufactured smart phone (easy, because IDGAF about trendy features. running stock debian is fine.), which gets service from my own service provider, and my homemade laptop, getting internet from my own ISP, in my solar powered house. Also also, for anyone who lives in the SFBA, monkeybrains internet is the best ISP evar. I was one of their first customers, and I miss my ~4ms ping times to the office, and ~8ms ping time to my colo box.
- grahamburger 5y ago
  Thanks! I know some of the folks at Monkey Brains, they're a great ISP and super cool people too! > I agree with the top post that if you're a engineer who hasn't dealt with low level networking stuff, worked in a DC, or had to be on call, this probably isn't a good first project. I don't really disagree, but I would just say that if you're interested in doing this, and have money you'd like to invest in it, reach out to me. With our powers combined we can probably make something work!

Hi folks, author of startyourownisp.com here. Not sure why we hit the front page today, but happy to be here! I'll try to hang around and answer questions for the next few hours. Thanks!

tomschlick 5y ago

It's probably in relation to the push to ban municipal ISPs in Ohio: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27538804 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27538804

ignoramous 5y ago

Does SYOISP overlap (tech-wise) with the efforts of those at https://www.meshcenter.org/ https://www.meshcenter.org/ who are really trailblazing it in NYC and Baltimore? Also, is SYOISP closer to what https://starry.com/ https://starry.com/ has deployed? Thanks.

grahamburger 5y ago
Related in both cases. SYOISP describes what I, as a somewhat opinionated author, believe to be the absolute minimum amount of information required to build a business that can be called an ISP. To the extent that the companies involved in meshcenter.org and also Starry are ISPs, there is definitely overlap.
- ignoramous 5y ago
  > SYOISP describes what I, as a somewhat opinionated author, believe to be the absolute minimum amount of information required to build a business that can be called an ISP. Thanks. Then, what'd you say are key differences between meshcenter.org and syoisp? Curious because meshcenter goes for maintainability and affordability too, from what I gather. Also, has Facebook's foray into the space with https://telecominfraproject.com https://telecominfraproject.com (and Google's too with https://opennetworking.org/ https://opennetworking.org/) change the landscape? They're going after 4G/5G like deployments, which is in sharp contrast with what starry and meshcenter are doing?
  - grahamburger 5y ago
    > Then, what'd you say are key differences between meshcenter.org and syoisp? No big differences, everything is applicable to both. In practice 'Mesh' has kind of become associated with 'non-profit, volunteer staff,' and SYOISP makes the implicit assumption of a for-profit entity. > Also, has Facebook's foray into the space with https://telecominfraproject.com https://telecominfraproject.com (and Google's too with https://opennetworking.org/ https://opennetworking.org/) change the landscape? They're going after 4G/5G like deployments, which is in sharp contrast with what starry and meshcenter are doing? Unsure yet what these efforts (and I'll add Microsoft's Airband) will amount too. I will say that I don't really see them tackling the actual hard parts of improving connectivity, which is primarily the actual building of physical infrastructure. I mean, other than Google obviously doing so with Google Fiber. Software can only get you so far in this effort, which is I think a lot of the reason that the incumbent providers have maintained such a stronghold over modern tech companies.
    - slut 5y ago
      I'm working on connectivity stuff at Facebook. Facebook is doing quite a bit more than just 4g/5g like deployments but the focus is primarily outside the US. We do have some public tools that I think are especially relevant to your effort: https://www.facebook.com/isptoolbox https://www.facebook.com/isptoolbox it's actively being worked on and there are many unreleased features in development but would be happy for any feedback too. Hope it's helpful.
      - ignoramous 5y ago
        Are there any research papers or publications (like blogs) detailing Facebook's efforts in this space?
ThePowerOfFuet 5y ago
>Also, is SYOISP closer to what https://starry.com/ https://starry.com/ has deployed? Probably not: >We designed every piece of hardware ourselves to ensure it works seamlessly to beam internet from the tops of towers to building receivers and right into your home without a hitch.
- grahamburger 5y ago
  (author here) It's similar in architecture, if not in the actual hardware being deployed. FWIW my personal opinion (informed by personal experience) is that designing your own equipment is a huge distraction with little benefit. We'll see how it works out for Starry. As I understand Starry has moved to focus largely on apartments buildings and in-home WiFi (rather than residential Internet service to single-family homes.)

elliekelly 5y ago

Every time I’ve seen your site posted here or on reddit you’re always in the comments offering to help and answering questions so I just wanted to say major kudos to you for being so helpful and responsive. I’m sure it can’t be easy but you’re doing a great public service by sharing your knowledge.

grahamburger 5y ago
Thanks, appreciate the kind words. It did derail my plans a bit to hit HN this morning, but it's fun to chat about and HN has done a lot for me over the years!

burnished 5y ago

Is this a reasonable way to make some money? Or for people who are fed up with their ISP options and are ready to take matters into their own hands? Basically, who do you imagine the typical user of your guide is?

grahamburger 5y ago
> Or for people who are fed up with their ISP options and are ready to take matters into their own hands? Basically, who do you imagine the typical user of your guide is? If your only motivation is that you are fed up with your ISP (join the club!) that may not be enough. If you are fed up with your ISP, have a spare $25k laying around, and/or have access to grant money, then we should talk. (Many states have grant funding available today specifically for broadband projects in rural or underserved areas.) I do consulting work on these types of projects as my main gig now. Many of my customers own businesses in other industries, live in a small town, and decided that their Internet sucked and they want to fix it. But it does take some capital.

loxias 5y ago

Thanks for the article! Well written I think. I agree with the top post that if you're a engineer who hasn't dealt with low level networking stuff, worked in a DC, or had to be on call, this probably isn't a good first project. But golly, I can't wait to have the free time and capital to try starting one. (I live in a spectrum dominated area) Maybe try and make the whole operation solar powered. Also fun, for anyone else who's interested taking "DIY self hosting" to new extreme, it's possible to start your own cell phone company! I don't have a link handy, but search "starting an MVNO" will yield tons of links. When I did the math, it worked out to require only ~100 customers to hit break even. (assuming your time and labor is free, of course) I have unreasonably happy giggle-fit inducing day dreams about some day using my own designed and manufactured smart phone (easy, because IDGAF about trendy features. running stock debian is fine.), which gets service from my own service provider, and my homemade laptop, getting internet from my own ISP, in my solar powered house. Also also, for anyone who lives in the SFBA, monkeybrains internet is the best ISP evar. I was one of their first customers, and I miss my ~4ms ping times to the office, and ~8ms ping time to my colo box.

grahamburger 5y ago
Thanks! I know some of the folks at Monkey Brains, they're a great ISP and super cool people too! > I agree with the top post that if you're a engineer who hasn't dealt with low level networking stuff, worked in a DC, or had to be on call, this probably isn't a good first project. I don't really disagree, but I would just say that if you're interested in doing this, and have money you'd like to invest in it, reach out to me. With our powers combined we can probably make something work!