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Going on a tangent, but to be fair I don't think the old answer was ever that the Earth/reality/the universe/all/etc is only 6000 years old. Isn't that more of

Going on a tangent, but to be fair I don't think the old answer was ever that the Earth/reality/the universe/all/etc is only 6000 years old. Isn't that more of a modern misinterpretation of ancient mystical children's stories? You know, saving the pearls from the swine, so to speak? The powerful have often been caught up in controversies (usually due to misunderstandings) around secret societies and other clubs that tend to carry those philosophical and mystical traditions forward which tend to reject the myth books as anything remotely literal. Except for (forgive my glossing over this part) more mundane fundamentalist uprisings throughout history, a lot of leadership has tended to associate as if they're above the literal tellings. If you follow threads of mysticism in any form back through human history, it seems the overarching theory has remained pretty similar with the middling details a little murky and swapped around. Hell, some of the concepts strike me as uncannily close to what we continue to unravel and discover with physical sciences.

hutzlibu 5y ago
Huh? There are still freaks around, who take the bible literal and some are even in position of power. They used to control the western welt, until new ideas negated their source of power: offering people answers. But people saw other ideas (science) made more sense.
- 52-6F-62 5y ago
  Those are the mundane fundamentalists I noted. They're not the sole bearers of power throughout history. Probably the minority, since they're usually responsible for reductions in their own power, and the power of the people they rule. Not even Christian philosophy began with Constantine. edit: My comments may sound muddier than I thought. I'm saying that human cosmological theory and understanding did not go from Holy Bible -> Science.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    No, before we had the godkings of egypt, babylon, .. I am not a historian, but from what I know the base of power of many if not most states(empires) was based on religious beliefs (and soldiers enforcing it). From my layman understanding, the most successful states were the ones practicing the most tolerance. But then usually some egomaniac wanted to maintain his power and went into theocracy, where the priests legitimated his power. And then there maybe was stability for a time, but seldom any progress.
    - 52-6F-62 5y ago
      I think you're talking about something completely different now. I was just picking on your line about going from the "old answer" that the earth was 6000 years old to the "new answer" of science-based reasoning. I didn't mean to come across as confrontational—like I said, just going on a tangent. So I'm saying that timeline never happened. Animism and universal consciousness, various planes of existence and dimensional properties are concepts that appear to stretch throughout human history. Most leadership participated on a more esoteric level of mysticism throughout human history (even if they themselves didn't fully grasp it). Dogmatic religion was a convenient teaching tool that grew to overpower its creators and operate on its own accord (another tangent). It's best not to mix up its use as a allegorical teaching tool and tool of exercising power and what humans at large have considered a well-considered cosmological model—something that hasn't really fundamentally changed, even with the aid of science. And not out of ignorance, but that sciences like physics have even hinted at some of the old models being consistent. Enough so that it made some real interesting characters out of people who had a sound grasp of chemistry and quantum theories like Jack Parsons who could never extricate the old models with his own growing understanding, even if it was not accurate or complete. It's pretty fascinating to read about.
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        "I think you're talking about something completely different now." I meant the same theme: That thinking about the universe beyound materialistic advantages can indeed have other advantages - by helping create us societies, closer to our true nature. And not let some dogmatic priest declare that for us. No confrontation ;) And sure, there is no single timeline. I think some ancient philosophic concepts might be closer to the truth, than some mathematic approximations we use today. But mathematic based science is a very powerful tool, for getting verification. So it is indeed fascinating, to see where we are heading.

hutzlibu 5y ago

Huh? There are still freaks around, who take the bible literal and some are even in position of power. They used to control the western welt, until new ideas negated their source of power: offering people answers. But people saw other ideas (science) made more sense.

52-6F-62 5y ago
Those are the mundane fundamentalists I noted. They're not the sole bearers of power throughout history. Probably the minority, since they're usually responsible for reductions in their own power, and the power of the people they rule. Not even Christian philosophy began with Constantine. edit: My comments may sound muddier than I thought. I'm saying that human cosmological theory and understanding did not go from Holy Bible -> Science.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  No, before we had the godkings of egypt, babylon, .. I am not a historian, but from what I know the base of power of many if not most states(empires) was based on religious beliefs (and soldiers enforcing it). From my layman understanding, the most successful states were the ones practicing the most tolerance. But then usually some egomaniac wanted to maintain his power and went into theocracy, where the priests legitimated his power. And then there maybe was stability for a time, but seldom any progress.
  - 52-6F-62 5y ago
    I think you're talking about something completely different now. I was just picking on your line about going from the "old answer" that the earth was 6000 years old to the "new answer" of science-based reasoning. I didn't mean to come across as confrontational—like I said, just going on a tangent. So I'm saying that timeline never happened. Animism and universal consciousness, various planes of existence and dimensional properties are concepts that appear to stretch throughout human history. Most leadership participated on a more esoteric level of mysticism throughout human history (even if they themselves didn't fully grasp it). Dogmatic religion was a convenient teaching tool that grew to overpower its creators and operate on its own accord (another tangent). It's best not to mix up its use as a allegorical teaching tool and tool of exercising power and what humans at large have considered a well-considered cosmological model—something that hasn't really fundamentally changed, even with the aid of science. And not out of ignorance, but that sciences like physics have even hinted at some of the old models being consistent. Enough so that it made some real interesting characters out of people who had a sound grasp of chemistry and quantum theories like Jack Parsons who could never extricate the old models with his own growing understanding, even if it was not accurate or complete. It's pretty fascinating to read about.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      "I think you're talking about something completely different now." I meant the same theme: That thinking about the universe beyound materialistic advantages can indeed have other advantages - by helping create us societies, closer to our true nature. And not let some dogmatic priest declare that for us. No confrontation ;) And sure, there is no single timeline. I think some ancient philosophic concepts might be closer to the truth, than some mathematic approximations we use today. But mathematic based science is a very powerful tool, for getting verification. So it is indeed fascinating, to see where we are heading.