7 ms·

I despise ads in all forms, and the absolute worst offenders are ads built into a platform just like this. Windows 10 shouldn’t be advertising on my desktop, Pl

by rychco 5y ago

I despise ads in all forms, and the absolute worst offenders are ads built into a platform just like this. Windows 10 shouldn’t be advertising on my desktop, PlayStation/Xbox shouldn’t be advertising on my dashboard, cars shouldn’t be advertising on the controls/display, and Facebook shouldn’t be advertising in my virtual reality headset.

shafyy 5y ago
FWIW, the ads are not on the platform level, but inside individual games and apps. For now. (I also despise ads)
- BEEdwards 5y ago
  That's worse... Can't even use escapist reality to escape from ads now.
- SaltyBackendGuy 5y ago
  > but inside individual games and apps. IMO that's worse. You spend more time in game than on the menu screen. Sadly this is likely a pandoras box we will not be able to close.
  - lawl 5y ago
    > Sadly this is likely a pandoras box we will not be able to close. Valve has tried that a long time ago too and it wasn't successful. There's still some hope.
    - tpxl 5y ago
      Valve had ads in games?
      - lawl 5y ago
        yes. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/103060/Valve_Plans_InGame_Ads_For_CounterStrike.php https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/103060/Valve_Plans_InGam... https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/counter-strike-gets-in-game-ads https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/counter-strike-gets-in-ga...
        tpxl 5y ago
        Thanks for the links. That is bonkers and I'm glad it didn't turn out.
- jonplackett 5y ago
  Still using platform-level data though.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Facebook is getting the blame, but it’s actually game developers who are choosing to add these ads to their games. I’d be upset if these ads were on the Oculus hardware that I paid for in the games I bought, but if it’s just going into freemium games then it’s business as usual in the ad space. I haven’t even heard of the “Blaston” game the article cites as one of the first games to adopt the ads.
- mattferderer 5y ago
  Out of curiosity, I'm assuming most of the ads are giant in your face ones. Do they do any subliminal product placement type ads too & if so are any of them dynamic based on user data? Might as well go all out & have a variety of props you can exchange based on user data. I seem to be able to avoid ads quite a bit through tools & life style choices. I therefore ask this as someone whose personal opinion does not like the do anything for views to sell ads economy & avoids it as much as possible.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ghostbrainalpha 5y ago
    They are really giant in your face ads yet. Imagine Billboards in the virtual worlds of your games for now. Image below if you want to see an example. https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/tXt80SaN80Qsg6MdMlC4fvbHcUA=/0x0:1600x900/920x613/filters:focal(463x257:719x513):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/69462803/image001.0.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/tXt80SaN80Qsg6MdMlC4fvbHcUA=...
- MereInterest 5y ago
  Blame isn't a finite thing, and blaming facebook doesn't reduce the blame that can be giving to the developers. Blame is like the tension in a rope, equal along the length from cause to effect. Yes, facebook deserves blame. Yes, the game developers deserve blame. These can both be true at the same time.
silicon2401 5y ago
I understand the dislike of ads, but not so much the complaint. Companies are free to insert ads if they want to, and we're free to choose what media we consume. I hate ads and would be glad to see them outlawed like billboards in Vermont, but I don't stress about it. I accept it as a tradeoff for playing certain games, or I do ad-free things like reading old books or exercising.
- recursive 5y ago
  I'm not against companies doing it. I'm just against me consuming it. This is why I subscribed to netflix instead of hulu.
  - baconator123 5y ago
    same with me...however, what i am annoyed is sometimes ads get in the way of your net activity and sometimes difficult to put it off...
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    This is the logical thing, IMO. The fact that people don't even reconsider their consumption is a sign to me that the real issue isn't the ads, it's people not having anything better to do than play VR. I've been playing video games as long as I've been able to read and I'm happy to just go read a book or ride my bike instead if I don't want ads.
- Otek 5y ago
  You see, problem with this is that we don't have a choice. With Oculus Quest, I bought this headset and it didn't had any ads back then. I have to keep it connected to the internet to download and update games but we shouldn't accept state where they can just put ads on my hardware anytime they want.
  - rijoja 5y ago
    So it becomes unusable if you don't keep it connected to the internet?
jonplackett 5y ago
Totally agree. I get the deal-with-the-devil that is the free-to-play game / website / email client / social network where I'm getting a service in return for my eyeballs. But I paid for my Oculus Quest, and then I just paid for a game. I do not therefore want my eyeballs rented out. Edit: I'd also much rather the Quest platform not become the cesspool that is the free-to-play ad-infested world the iOS AppStore has become. Please can we emulate the Nintendo model and encourage quality games you pay up front for.
- chaostheory 5y ago
  I think there's something everyone is missing. Is this just limited to Oculus? Last time I checked ad platforms do not have a habit of staying voluntarily stuck on just one product line. This is will spread to all VR platforms.
- tyfon 5y ago
  You paid for only a part of the Quest, it is the reason I have avoided it. It is vastly underpriced for the hardware it gives. Some is paid upfront and the rest is paid in data collection etc from facebook. They have a "unconnected" version for sale for 800 USD and a service fee of 180 bucks. You can see how much you have not paid for in those prices when you go with the ad version. If the Quest 2 was not associated with facebook I would have owned one a long time ago.
  - NovaS1X 5y ago
    >They have a "unconnected" version for sale for 800 USD and a service fee of 180 bucks. You can see how much you have not paid for in those prices when you go with the ad version. That pricing isn't for an "unconnected" version, that's for a business/enterprise version and yearly support. You can't use that figure and directly convert that into a value you place on your data or ad revenue. Your point still stands, the Quest is heavily subsidized by user data on the premise of future ad revenue. This has been a given from the moment Facebook decided merge Oculus and FB acounts into one. I'm just correcting a false assumption that the $800 model is just "Quest -facebook", it's not.
rijoja 5y ago
Yeah so what can we do to prevent this? I would say that the main risk here is that Facebook would be able to get control over the whole VR ecosystem. In worst case so that the top apps only would be usable if you had a Facebook account and with a Facebook device.
- freeflight 5y ago
  That’s pretty much already the case. By now Occulus only exists as a brand inside the Facebook ecosystem, only legacy Occulus accounts are allowed, everybody else uses their Facebook account to login and tie purchases too. The same Facebook account that FB can at any time arbitrarily block and demand the owner properly ID themselves. A situation that originally was deemed as “will never happen” when Occulus originally got acquired by FB. At least there is also Valve to offer an alternative that’s more privacy minded. But this makes their hardware offerings more expensive by default, as the device prices can’t be subsidized by monetizing their users.
  - rijoja 5y ago
    At heart Occulus is really an android system right? It would be such a shame if they where to grab control over this ecosystem. Unfortunately their set seems to be the most viable path to mainstream adoption. Valve exists but Valve's alternative is way pricier and requires a computer right? Facebook would be able to mass-produce these devices at a low cost in a completely different way it seems. So since it is an android system under the hood it would be very possible to make VR apps that would work on all android systems. This would be so much better for the ecosystem as a whole. Surely there are WebXR standards that would basically be webapps so they would be totally platform independent however this will surely not cut it for all applications. Seeing how social media companies can manipulate politics and steer behaviour through ads imagine what happens in a VR only reality. This is a total nightmare scenario. Would it be possible to try to create some sort of campaign to make people more aware about the bad effects of this lock in. Perhaps by finding a suitable chinese device that remains open and try to favour that over facebooks versions. Sort of how Huawei managed to more or less copy devices at a lower costs and get into the market that way? Microsofts Mixed Reality standard deserves some attention as well obviously. Again this requires a PC and they seem to be a bit more pricier as well. These wouldn't require base stations as well.
miej 5y ago
I agree of course, but I dont think that merely stating ones dislike on an internet forum will be an effective way to effect change. So I pose the question: What actions may we take in order to help ensure a future of non-implementation of "the user is the product" systems, with a specific focus on those actions that are most likely to be the most efficacious at accomplishing the stated goal in an expedient and lasting manner?
- rijoja 5y ago
  So how efficient are for instance the EFF on conveying messages like this to a broader public. I bet that the gaming community for instance would have the technological understanding needed to understand how this is bad for them as consumers.
zeta0134 5y ago
What's frustrating to me is that all of these platforms _have a store_! When I open the store, I downright _expect_ advertising; it's really helpful in that context to see featured, curated, maybe promoted stuff that I'd otherwise miss. If the ads would simply stay put, I would not mind them one bit, but it seems no platform can resist stuffing them in places that they do not belong.
scantron4 5y ago
And the physical roku stick I bought shouldn't be changing my entire theme to a disney plus ad.

by rychco 5y ago

shafyy 5y ago

FWIW, the ads are not on the platform level, but inside individual games and apps. For now. (I also despise ads)

BEEdwards 5y ago
That's worse... Can't even use escapist reality to escape from ads now.
SaltyBackendGuy 5y ago
> but inside individual games and apps. IMO that's worse. You spend more time in game than on the menu screen. Sadly this is likely a pandoras box we will not be able to close.
- lawl 5y ago
  > Sadly this is likely a pandoras box we will not be able to close. Valve has tried that a long time ago too and it wasn't successful. There's still some hope.
  - tpxl 5y ago
    Valve had ads in games?
    - lawl 5y ago
      yes. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/103060/Valve_Plans_InGame_Ads_For_CounterStrike.php https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/103060/Valve_Plans_InGam... https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/counter-strike-gets-in-game-ads https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/counter-strike-gets-in-ga...
      - tpxl 5y ago
        Thanks for the links. That is bonkers and I'm glad it didn't turn out.
jonplackett 5y ago
Still using platform-level data though.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

Facebook is getting the blame, but it’s actually game developers who are choosing to add these ads to their games. I’d be upset if these ads were on the Oculus hardware that I paid for in the games I bought, but if it’s just going into freemium games then it’s business as usual in the ad space. I haven’t even heard of the “Blaston” game the article cites as one of the first games to adopt the ads.

mattferderer 5y ago
Out of curiosity, I'm assuming most of the ads are giant in your face ones. Do they do any subliminal product placement type ads too & if so are any of them dynamic based on user data? Might as well go all out & have a variety of props you can exchange based on user data. I seem to be able to avoid ads quite a bit through tools & life style choices. I therefore ask this as someone whose personal opinion does not like the do anything for views to sell ads economy & avoids it as much as possible.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ghostbrainalpha 5y ago
  They are really giant in your face ads yet. Imagine Billboards in the virtual worlds of your games for now. Image below if you want to see an example. https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/tXt80SaN80Qsg6MdMlC4fvbHcUA=/0x0:1600x900/920x613/filters:focal(463x257:719x513):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/69462803/image001.0.png https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/tXt80SaN80Qsg6MdMlC4fvbHcUA=...
MereInterest 5y ago
Blame isn't a finite thing, and blaming facebook doesn't reduce the blame that can be giving to the developers. Blame is like the tension in a rope, equal along the length from cause to effect. Yes, facebook deserves blame. Yes, the game developers deserve blame. These can both be true at the same time.

silicon2401 5y ago

I understand the dislike of ads, but not so much the complaint. Companies are free to insert ads if they want to, and we're free to choose what media we consume. I hate ads and would be glad to see them outlawed like billboards in Vermont, but I don't stress about it. I accept it as a tradeoff for playing certain games, or I do ad-free things like reading old books or exercising.

recursive 5y ago
I'm not against companies doing it. I'm just against me consuming it. This is why I subscribed to netflix instead of hulu.
- baconator123 5y ago
  same with me...however, what i am annoyed is sometimes ads get in the way of your net activity and sometimes difficult to put it off...
- silicon2401 5y ago
  This is the logical thing, IMO. The fact that people don't even reconsider their consumption is a sign to me that the real issue isn't the ads, it's people not having anything better to do than play VR. I've been playing video games as long as I've been able to read and I'm happy to just go read a book or ride my bike instead if I don't want ads.
Otek 5y ago
You see, problem with this is that we don't have a choice. With Oculus Quest, I bought this headset and it didn't had any ads back then. I have to keep it connected to the internet to download and update games but we shouldn't accept state where they can just put ads on my hardware anytime they want.
- rijoja 5y ago
  So it becomes unusable if you don't keep it connected to the internet?

jonplackett 5y ago

Totally agree. I get the deal-with-the-devil that is the free-to-play game / website / email client / social network where I'm getting a service in return for my eyeballs. But I paid for my Oculus Quest, and then I just paid for a game. I do not therefore want my eyeballs rented out. Edit: I'd also much rather the Quest platform not become the cesspool that is the free-to-play ad-infested world the iOS AppStore has become. Please can we emulate the Nintendo model and encourage quality games you pay up front for.

chaostheory 5y ago
I think there's something everyone is missing. Is this just limited to Oculus? Last time I checked ad platforms do not have a habit of staying voluntarily stuck on just one product line. This is will spread to all VR platforms.
tyfon 5y ago
You paid for only a part of the Quest, it is the reason I have avoided it. It is vastly underpriced for the hardware it gives. Some is paid upfront and the rest is paid in data collection etc from facebook. They have a "unconnected" version for sale for 800 USD and a service fee of 180 bucks. You can see how much you have not paid for in those prices when you go with the ad version. If the Quest 2 was not associated with facebook I would have owned one a long time ago.
- NovaS1X 5y ago
  >They have a "unconnected" version for sale for 800 USD and a service fee of 180 bucks. You can see how much you have not paid for in those prices when you go with the ad version. That pricing isn't for an "unconnected" version, that's for a business/enterprise version and yearly support. You can't use that figure and directly convert that into a value you place on your data or ad revenue. Your point still stands, the Quest is heavily subsidized by user data on the premise of future ad revenue. This has been a given from the moment Facebook decided merge Oculus and FB acounts into one. I'm just correcting a false assumption that the $800 model is just "Quest -facebook", it's not.

rijoja 5y ago

Yeah so what can we do to prevent this? I would say that the main risk here is that Facebook would be able to get control over the whole VR ecosystem. In worst case so that the top apps only would be usable if you had a Facebook account and with a Facebook device.

freeflight 5y ago
That’s pretty much already the case. By now Occulus only exists as a brand inside the Facebook ecosystem, only legacy Occulus accounts are allowed, everybody else uses their Facebook account to login and tie purchases too. The same Facebook account that FB can at any time arbitrarily block and demand the owner properly ID themselves. A situation that originally was deemed as “will never happen” when Occulus originally got acquired by FB. At least there is also Valve to offer an alternative that’s more privacy minded. But this makes their hardware offerings more expensive by default, as the device prices can’t be subsidized by monetizing their users.
- rijoja 5y ago
  At heart Occulus is really an android system right? It would be such a shame if they where to grab control over this ecosystem. Unfortunately their set seems to be the most viable path to mainstream adoption. Valve exists but Valve's alternative is way pricier and requires a computer right? Facebook would be able to mass-produce these devices at a low cost in a completely different way it seems. So since it is an android system under the hood it would be very possible to make VR apps that would work on all android systems. This would be so much better for the ecosystem as a whole. Surely there are WebXR standards that would basically be webapps so they would be totally platform independent however this will surely not cut it for all applications. Seeing how social media companies can manipulate politics and steer behaviour through ads imagine what happens in a VR only reality. This is a total nightmare scenario. Would it be possible to try to create some sort of campaign to make people more aware about the bad effects of this lock in. Perhaps by finding a suitable chinese device that remains open and try to favour that over facebooks versions. Sort of how Huawei managed to more or less copy devices at a lower costs and get into the market that way? Microsofts Mixed Reality standard deserves some attention as well obviously. Again this requires a PC and they seem to be a bit more pricier as well. These wouldn't require base stations as well.

miej 5y ago

I agree of course, but I dont think that merely stating ones dislike on an internet forum will be an effective way to effect change. So I pose the question: What actions may we take in order to help ensure a future of non-implementation of "the user is the product" systems, with a specific focus on those actions that are most likely to be the most efficacious at accomplishing the stated goal in an expedient and lasting manner?

rijoja 5y ago
So how efficient are for instance the EFF on conveying messages like this to a broader public. I bet that the gaming community for instance would have the technological understanding needed to understand how this is bad for them as consumers.

zeta0134 5y ago

What's frustrating to me is that all of these platforms _have a store_! When I open the store, I downright _expect_ advertising; it's really helpful in that context to see featured, curated, maybe promoted stuff that I'd otherwise miss. If the ads would simply stay put, I would not mind them one bit, but it seems no platform can resist stuffing them in places that they do not belong.

scantron4 5y ago

And the physical roku stick I bought shouldn't be changing my entire theme to a disney plus ad.