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Not to downplay their success too much, but doing those things in the 2020s, while still expensive and difficult, is not nearly as expensive and difficult as do

Not to downplay their success too much, but doing those things in the 2020s, while still expensive and difficult, is not nearly as expensive and difficult as doing them in the 1990s. And given their propensity for stealing Western IP, would anyone be surprised to learn some of China’s progress is thanks to groundwork laid by Western space companies and agencies?

Clewza313 5y ago
Not really, they signed a bunch of deals with Russia to legally import their IP wholesale. For example, the Shenzhou spaceship flown today is a direct descendant of the venerable Soviet Soyuz. (Which is still being flown to the ISS as well.) I know it's easy to think "cheap Chinese copy fnarr fnarr", but so far they have a perfect track record for human spaceflight (and no, even the CCP couldn't cover up a space accident).
- cainxinth 5y ago
  Yeah, but I’m pretty sure they don’t publicize the use of tech that they pilfered.
  - dragonsh 5y ago
    Probably everyone know “ standing on the shoulders of giants”. Every new discovery is based on knowledge acquired from previous discoveries. What is achieved by USA is also standing on the work of previous great civilizations. Indeed all the knowledge USA today have is built on top of knowledge brought in by those immigrants from their respective society, culture and place. China is not the only country trying space missions. European Union, Japan, South Korea and India has also been trying for years. Besides Russia, USA now China is 3rd country to successfully launch a space station and then take crew to it, despite the sanctions and constant blocking of technology transfer (indeed forgetting the basic tenet of standing on the shoulders of giants). It’s a big achievement for China given they were blocked from ISS and need to re-invent the wheels. Hopefully they will be able to show same innovation and operational capability in space as they have shown in fast speed bullet trains. Personally I hope that humanity can come together to have more collaborations on space, given it will be the only hope if something happens to Earth. Docking of spacecraft with crew is a win for science and another feather in understanding space. Congratulations to all the scientists and people involved in this project, they deserve an applause for the this feat.
- kerng 5y ago
  Operation Titan Rain also comes to mind. It was so long ago that hardly anyone knows or talks about the massive IP theft happening late 90s and early 2000s.
- xwolfi 5y ago
  And the Saturn V rocket was designed by an upstanding american citizen totally from scratch :p
JKCalhoun 5y ago
Is anyone surprised with regard to the U.S. progress in rocketry thanks to the groundwork laid by the Nazi military? I agree with your first comment but just found your second one a little strange.
dragonsh 5y ago
Probably everyone know “ standing on the shoulders of giants”. Every new discovery is based on knowledge acquired from previous discoveries. What is achieved by USA is also standing on the work of previous great civilizations. Indeed all the knowledge USA today have, is built on top of knowledge brought in by immigrants from their respective society, culture and place. China is not the only country trying space missions. European Union, Japan, South Korea and India has also been trying for years. Besides Russia, USA now China is 3rd country to successfully launch a space station and then take crew to it, despite the sanctions and constant blocking of technology transfer (indeed forgetting the basic tenet of standing on the shoulders of giants). It’s a big achievement for China given they were blocked from ISS and need to re-invent the wheels. Hopefully they will be able to show same innovation and operational capability in space as they have shown in fast speed bullet trains. Personally I hope that humanity can come together to have more collaborations on space, given it will be the only hope if something happens to Earth. Docking of spacecraft with crew is a win for science and another feather in understanding space. Congratulations to all the scientists and people involved in this project, they deserve an applause for the this feat.
- sidlls 5y ago
  Please don't abuse the phrase "standing on the shoulders of giants." It's the difference between riffing off a work of art to produce something novel versus plagiarism. What China does is the latter, not the former. It's not "standing on the shoulders of giants." And in this case it's worse: China's government is engaged in a genocide and empire building at least as bad as any colonial power in the West, and likely worse due to its extremely oppressive, authoritarian nature. Their achievements are not only built on theft of others' hard work, but on the backs of the oppressed people that have guns pointed at their heads. > Personally I hope that humanity can come together to have more collaborations on space, given it will be the only hope if something happens to Earth. I do, too. But China isn't going to contribute to that: they'd rather let others do the hard work and then steal it. It's not a bad strategy in some respects. But it's not respectable or good in any meaningful sense as it applies to a shared endeavor such as you describe.
  - 5y ago
jiminymcmoogley 5y ago
>stealing western IP The term youre looking for is copying without authorization, to steal IP requires that the original intellectual good be removed from its proprietor, which, short of a "Men In Black" style brainalyzer, is simply not possible I trust that in order to preserve and strengthen the incentive structure around the creation of novel intellectual goods, such a device should be technologically within reach within the next 20 years, and hopefully the world's IP lobbies will be granted special powers to compel the use of such devices in cases where individuals find themselves coming into possession of protected intellectual goods without authorization In answer to your question though, no, I do not think anyone would be surprised if some of China's progress is thanks to the groundwork laid by Western space companies and agencies.
Iv 5y ago
Well, the world is out of nazi scientists to steal knowledge from...

Clewza313 5y ago

Not really, they signed a bunch of deals with Russia to legally import their IP wholesale. For example, the Shenzhou spaceship flown today is a direct descendant of the venerable Soviet Soyuz. (Which is still being flown to the ISS as well.) I know it's easy to think "cheap Chinese copy fnarr fnarr", but so far they have a perfect track record for human spaceflight (and no, even the CCP couldn't cover up a space accident).

cainxinth 5y ago
Yeah, but I’m pretty sure they don’t publicize the use of tech that they pilfered.
- dragonsh 5y ago
  Probably everyone know “ standing on the shoulders of giants”. Every new discovery is based on knowledge acquired from previous discoveries. What is achieved by USA is also standing on the work of previous great civilizations. Indeed all the knowledge USA today have is built on top of knowledge brought in by those immigrants from their respective society, culture and place. China is not the only country trying space missions. European Union, Japan, South Korea and India has also been trying for years. Besides Russia, USA now China is 3rd country to successfully launch a space station and then take crew to it, despite the sanctions and constant blocking of technology transfer (indeed forgetting the basic tenet of standing on the shoulders of giants). It’s a big achievement for China given they were blocked from ISS and need to re-invent the wheels. Hopefully they will be able to show same innovation and operational capability in space as they have shown in fast speed bullet trains. Personally I hope that humanity can come together to have more collaborations on space, given it will be the only hope if something happens to Earth. Docking of spacecraft with crew is a win for science and another feather in understanding space. Congratulations to all the scientists and people involved in this project, they deserve an applause for the this feat.
kerng 5y ago
Operation Titan Rain also comes to mind. It was so long ago that hardly anyone knows or talks about the massive IP theft happening late 90s and early 2000s.
xwolfi 5y ago
And the Saturn V rocket was designed by an upstanding american citizen totally from scratch :p

JKCalhoun 5y ago

Is anyone surprised with regard to the U.S. progress in rocketry thanks to the groundwork laid by the Nazi military? I agree with your first comment but just found your second one a little strange.

dragonsh 5y ago

Probably everyone know “ standing on the shoulders of giants”. Every new discovery is based on knowledge acquired from previous discoveries. What is achieved by USA is also standing on the work of previous great civilizations. Indeed all the knowledge USA today have, is built on top of knowledge brought in by immigrants from their respective society, culture and place. China is not the only country trying space missions. European Union, Japan, South Korea and India has also been trying for years. Besides Russia, USA now China is 3rd country to successfully launch a space station and then take crew to it, despite the sanctions and constant blocking of technology transfer (indeed forgetting the basic tenet of standing on the shoulders of giants). It’s a big achievement for China given they were blocked from ISS and need to re-invent the wheels. Hopefully they will be able to show same innovation and operational capability in space as they have shown in fast speed bullet trains. Personally I hope that humanity can come together to have more collaborations on space, given it will be the only hope if something happens to Earth. Docking of spacecraft with crew is a win for science and another feather in understanding space. Congratulations to all the scientists and people involved in this project, they deserve an applause for the this feat.

sidlls 5y ago
Please don't abuse the phrase "standing on the shoulders of giants." It's the difference between riffing off a work of art to produce something novel versus plagiarism. What China does is the latter, not the former. It's not "standing on the shoulders of giants." And in this case it's worse: China's government is engaged in a genocide and empire building at least as bad as any colonial power in the West, and likely worse due to its extremely oppressive, authoritarian nature. Their achievements are not only built on theft of others' hard work, but on the backs of the oppressed people that have guns pointed at their heads. > Personally I hope that humanity can come together to have more collaborations on space, given it will be the only hope if something happens to Earth. I do, too. But China isn't going to contribute to that: they'd rather let others do the hard work and then steal it. It's not a bad strategy in some respects. But it's not respectable or good in any meaningful sense as it applies to a shared endeavor such as you describe.
- 5y ago

jiminymcmoogley 5y ago

>stealing western IP The term youre looking for is copying without authorization, to steal IP requires that the original intellectual good be removed from its proprietor, which, short of a "Men In Black" style brainalyzer, is simply not possible I trust that in order to preserve and strengthen the incentive structure around the creation of novel intellectual goods, such a device should be technologically within reach within the next 20 years, and hopefully the world's IP lobbies will be granted special powers to compel the use of such devices in cases where individuals find themselves coming into possession of protected intellectual goods without authorization In answer to your question though, no, I do not think anyone would be surprised if some of China's progress is thanks to the groundwork laid by Western space companies and agencies.

Iv 5y ago

Well, the world is out of nazi scientists to steal knowledge from...