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I'm super disappointed China was excluded from the ISS. The world should be contributing on behalf of humanity together to expand space technology/exploration.

I'm super disappointed China was excluded from the ISS. The world should be contributing on behalf of humanity together to expand space technology/exploration. How is it the US trusts Russia but not China in this regard? Good on China for pushing ahead and developing their own space program and their own space station.

FredPret 5y ago
> How is it the US trusts Russia but not China in this regard? The cold war with the one is over and won, and the cold war with the other one is just now spinning up
- dragonelite 5y ago
  The spinning up happened during Obama pivot to Asia, we are now full blown in a cold war. Lets hope it stays a cold war.
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    >we are now full blown in a cold war. American FDI in China even under the last administration went up, and both the EU and the US were busy signing free trade deals with China. I don't remember Apple building computers in the Soviet Union. Follow the money, not the news headlines. There's going to be no second cold war because there is no ideological competition and China is deeply integrated in just about every value chain on the planet.
    - dragonelite 5y ago
      The second cold war has been going on for almost a decade, it just become more significant with Trump escalating. But the Washington foreign policy think tanks have been talking about it for almost a decade. Its all viewable on their YouTube channels.
- vsareto 5y ago
  I'm starting to think that one can predict a cold war roughly as accurately as an economic bubble bursting
  - FredPret 5y ago
    This is only the second one ever, if you go by the modern conception of the term
- simion314 5y ago
  >the cold war with the other one is just now spinning up This can't be the correct explanation since the China exclusion is not recent. Is anyone still investigating who started that Bloomberg fake news that kick-started the entire 5G/Huawei conspiracy ? I mean there was no proof that anything weird is happening so I am still wondering if there was a government Agency or some rich dudes that started this.
  - sslayer 5y ago
    The cold war with China started 25 years ago.
    - FredPret 5y ago
      What would you say was the event that kicked it off?
    - vimy 5y ago
      No, until a couple years ago there was the expectation (hope?) China would become more liberal and closer to the West. A lot of economic concessions were made with that expectation in mind. Turns out we were wrong.
  - publicola1990 5y ago
    US passed a Chinese Exclusion Act in 1880s.
- publicola1990 5y ago
  More than the Cold War the US-China situation is looking more like the US-Japan relationship before World War 2.
- eunos 5y ago
  Back then the risks of not integrating Russia were massive. Their scientists could move to China, Iran, or even North Korea. US would like to avoid that.
slipframe 5y ago
I think it came down to Russia being a peer to America in space tech, at least relative to China.
the-dude 5y ago
> How is it the US trusts Russia but not China in this regard? Without Russia, the ISS launches you. Errr, I mean : without the Russians, it would be impossible to operate the ISS.
- onethought 5y ago
  Right, but if you are already trusting the Russians (whom share a lot of intelligence and technology with China)... Why exclude china?
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    Russia's involvement is a historical legacy of the 90s at this point. Today they would not be involved. In fact Russia has said that they will leave in 2025.
uj8efdjkfdshf 5y ago
It's because the ISS was started during a rare period of cooperation just after the fall of communism but before the rise of Putin. By the time Russia started regressing into authoritarianism, it was too late for the US to ban Russia from the ISS, especially when the ISS depends on the Russian orbital segment for station keeping and life support.
melling 5y ago
Now there’s no reason to be disappointed because China has shown they can do it on their own. We should expect a lot more impressive things coming out of China. China built 22,000 miles of high-speed rail in 15 years, for example. AI, semiconductors, electric vehicles will be significant for them over the coming decade
- roenxi 5y ago
  The really remarkable thing about China is that given the unprecedented feats that go on there, I really don't feel confident anyone in the West understands why. I really wanted to write a post about this showing differences in regulation - but couldn't because the Chinese regulatory approach is too opaque to me. There seems to be remarkably little information on what the facts on the ground are. And given the rumoured Chinese programs of influencing foreign universities I do think it is questionable which channels of information are reliable vs tainted by their propaganda.
  - fqye 5y ago
    Cherry picking and then overgeneralization are the two poisonous pills that are been fed to westerners about China. Western media pick all the authoritarian measures CCP did or is doing and blow them up and make them all about China. They ignored many things Chinese government (here most westerners or media couldn't tell the difference between Chinese administrative government and CCP and thought they were the same thing), and Chinese people did right in the past decades. I often say China today has been built on three things: 1. Equality between men and women. China did very well in this. There are lots of problems still obviously but in general women in China are quite equal to men. China has the most self-made female billionaires, maybe more than the rest of the world's combined. 2. Unleashed entrepreneurship. No need to say much about it here. 3. A very solid education system together with Han Chinese tradition of valuing education. Nine years of free and compulsory education for the entire nation before high school and many options for next level education.
    - icedistilled 5y ago

FredPret 5y ago

> How is it the US trusts Russia but not China in this regard? The cold war with the one is over and won, and the cold war with the other one is just now spinning up

dragonelite 5y ago
The spinning up happened during Obama pivot to Asia, we are now full blown in a cold war. Lets hope it stays a cold war.
- Barrin92 5y ago
  >we are now full blown in a cold war. American FDI in China even under the last administration went up, and both the EU and the US were busy signing free trade deals with China. I don't remember Apple building computers in the Soviet Union. Follow the money, not the news headlines. There's going to be no second cold war because there is no ideological competition and China is deeply integrated in just about every value chain on the planet.
  - dragonelite 5y ago
    The second cold war has been going on for almost a decade, it just become more significant with Trump escalating. But the Washington foreign policy think tanks have been talking about it for almost a decade. Its all viewable on their YouTube channels.
vsareto 5y ago
I'm starting to think that one can predict a cold war roughly as accurately as an economic bubble bursting
- FredPret 5y ago
  This is only the second one ever, if you go by the modern conception of the term
simion314 5y ago
>the cold war with the other one is just now spinning up This can't be the correct explanation since the China exclusion is not recent. Is anyone still investigating who started that Bloomberg fake news that kick-started the entire 5G/Huawei conspiracy ? I mean there was no proof that anything weird is happening so I am still wondering if there was a government Agency or some rich dudes that started this.
- sslayer 5y ago
  The cold war with China started 25 years ago.
  - FredPret 5y ago
    What would you say was the event that kicked it off?
  - vimy 5y ago
    No, until a couple years ago there was the expectation (hope?) China would become more liberal and closer to the West. A lot of economic concessions were made with that expectation in mind. Turns out we were wrong.
- publicola1990 5y ago
  US passed a Chinese Exclusion Act in 1880s.
publicola1990 5y ago
More than the Cold War the US-China situation is looking more like the US-Japan relationship before World War 2.
eunos 5y ago
Back then the risks of not integrating Russia were massive. Their scientists could move to China, Iran, or even North Korea. US would like to avoid that.

slipframe 5y ago

I think it came down to Russia being a peer to America in space tech, at least relative to China.

the-dude 5y ago

> How is it the US trusts Russia but not China in this regard? Without Russia, the ISS launches you. Errr, I mean : without the Russians, it would be impossible to operate the ISS.

onethought 5y ago
Right, but if you are already trusting the Russians (whom share a lot of intelligence and technology with China)... Why exclude china?
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  Russia's involvement is a historical legacy of the 90s at this point. Today they would not be involved. In fact Russia has said that they will leave in 2025.

uj8efdjkfdshf 5y ago

It's because the ISS was started during a rare period of cooperation just after the fall of communism but before the rise of Putin. By the time Russia started regressing into authoritarianism, it was too late for the US to ban Russia from the ISS, especially when the ISS depends on the Russian orbital segment for station keeping and life support.

melling 5y ago

Now there’s no reason to be disappointed because China has shown they can do it on their own. We should expect a lot more impressive things coming out of China. China built 22,000 miles of high-speed rail in 15 years, for example. AI, semiconductors, electric vehicles will be significant for them over the coming decade

roenxi 5y ago
The really remarkable thing about China is that given the unprecedented feats that go on there, I really don't feel confident anyone in the West understands why. I really wanted to write a post about this showing differences in regulation - but couldn't because the Chinese regulatory approach is too opaque to me. There seems to be remarkably little information on what the facts on the ground are. And given the rumoured Chinese programs of influencing foreign universities I do think it is questionable which channels of information are reliable vs tainted by their propaganda.
- fqye 5y ago
  Cherry picking and then overgeneralization are the two poisonous pills that are been fed to westerners about China. Western media pick all the authoritarian measures CCP did or is doing and blow them up and make them all about China. They ignored many things Chinese government (here most westerners or media couldn't tell the difference between Chinese administrative government and CCP and thought they were the same thing), and Chinese people did right in the past decades. I often say China today has been built on three things: 1. Equality between men and women. China did very well in this. There are lots of problems still obviously but in general women in China are quite equal to men. China has the most self-made female billionaires, maybe more than the rest of the world's combined. 2. Unleashed entrepreneurship. No need to say much about it here. 3. A very solid education system together with Han Chinese tradition of valuing education. Nine years of free and compulsory education for the entire nation before high school and many options for next level education.
  - icedistilled 5y ago