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So which solution are you in favor of? 1) a two state solution, in which, somehow, Gaza and the West-Bank must be free to pass goods and humans with zero Israe

So which solution are you in favor of? 1) a two state solution, in which, somehow, Gaza and the West-Bank must be free to pass goods and humans with zero Israeli involvement (how? a tunnel?) 2) a one-state solution (a greater Israel) with a Jewish minority Because I see cynicism in the actions of Likud (and others)_that have ramped up a lot since the assassination of Itzhak Rabin in 1995 by a right wing settler. I see cynicism in allowing right wing marches through the Arab quarter of Jerusalem. I see cynicism in settlements built upon annexed land. I see cynicism in deliberate provocative actions designed to goad Palestinians into predictable action. Hamas was democratically elected in Gaza, like it or not. (I don't, I see them as essentially right wing nationalists. I see them maintaining power even more the hard Israel strikes Gaza. It's the unfortunate result of squashing 2 million people into a giant prison camp where the passage of products and people requires the approval of an outside entity.) I don't recall anyone working with the Palestinian Authority to offer any "carrot" to complement the "stick" (incentivizing support for PA vs punishing Hamas) I see hard line nationalists in Israel with no actual path forward. Do they really think they can treat 4 million people (both territories combined) as inconsequential forever? Is genocide and "death to Arabs" an actual game plan for some extremists? The settler thing is blatantly copying the old American "how the west was won" plot line, ship in new immigrants and send them to the frontier to defend/expand it. and yes, I've spent significant time in Israel and I'm not trying to push some unrealistic story here, I'm trying to say that you don't even realize how right wing your bathwater has become... BUT... the topic was "Saudi Arabia cuts a youths head off for being rebellious"... and I am disgusted at how "The West" speaks of democracy and values and rails on China, but gives Saudi Arabia a break and prefers to sell them weapons. Egypt and support for Sisi (and Mubarak) is also disgusting... Do you know who was promising in Egypt? Anwar Sadat. Look what happened to him...

mikevm 5y ago
Why do I have to pick from your two options? Who knows what possibilities lie ahead given enough time. > Hamas was democratically elected in Gaza, like it or not. (I don't, I see them as essentially right wing nationalists. I see them maintaining power even more the hard Israel strikes Gaza. Sorry, but what do you expect Israel to do here? Hamas shells Israel continuously, it's easy for outsiders to virtue signal and tell Israel not to attack back, but they would've done 10 times worse. > It's the unfortunate result of squashing 2 million people into a giant prison camp where the passage of products and people requires the approval of an outside entity.) Why is it when people bring up the "blockade" of Gaza they always conveniently forget that Gaza is also bordered by Egypt, who are also cutting them off, yet no one ever blames their "brothers" and yet expects Israel to open up the border.
- aszen 5y ago
  It's important to note that Egypt is also run by an autocratic regime which is fearful of the influence of hamas and other revolutionary parties like Muslim brotherhood. I think Israel for all their supposed military intelligence is thinking extremely short sighted, ultimately it's best for them that they make peace with the people around them by giving them equal rights and not provoking them by stealing their land. In the decades to come, the political situation can change dramatically in the middle East and Israel may find itself among Arab countries that are no longer monarchies and won't ignore the Palestinian situation

mikevm 5y ago

Why do I have to pick from your two options? Who knows what possibilities lie ahead given enough time. > Hamas was democratically elected in Gaza, like it or not. (I don't, I see them as essentially right wing nationalists. I see them maintaining power even more the hard Israel strikes Gaza. Sorry, but what do you expect Israel to do here? Hamas shells Israel continuously, it's easy for outsiders to virtue signal and tell Israel not to attack back, but they would've done 10 times worse. > It's the unfortunate result of squashing 2 million people into a giant prison camp where the passage of products and people requires the approval of an outside entity.) Why is it when people bring up the "blockade" of Gaza they always conveniently forget that Gaza is also bordered by Egypt, who are also cutting them off, yet no one ever blames their "brothers" and yet expects Israel to open up the border.

aszen 5y ago
It's important to note that Egypt is also run by an autocratic regime which is fearful of the influence of hamas and other revolutionary parties like Muslim brotherhood. I think Israel for all their supposed military intelligence is thinking extremely short sighted, ultimately it's best for them that they make peace with the people around them by giving them equal rights and not provoking them by stealing their land. In the decades to come, the political situation can change dramatically in the middle East and Israel may find itself among Arab countries that are no longer monarchies and won't ignore the Palestinian situation