4 ms·

I doubt this is the case here. Cantonese is an official language of Hong Kong and Macau and the mother tongue of tens of millions in Guangdong. Language politic

by 07d046 5y ago

I doubt this is the case here. Cantonese is an official language of Hong Kong and Macau and the mother tongue of tens of millions in Guangdong. Language politics is complicated but I don't think the CCP is so crudely trying to eliminate languages. Apple also has keyboards for Uyghur and Tibetan, which are probably more sensitive languages.

chemmail 5y ago
Do you live in Hong Kong? They are slowly but systematically and surely doing that to Cantonese.
- 07d046 5y ago
  As far as I know, there is a gradual trend to push Mandarin at the expense of Cantonese, and there is reason for concern, but I doubt there's a connection between this and Apple's decision here. (There's a reason I said "crudely".)
tasogare 5y ago
> I don't think the CCP is so crudely trying to eliminate languages They are doing it. Sources: few HK friends that were really worried about the future of their language and culture. And this was before the security law.
The_suffocated 5y ago
> "...but I don't think the CCP is so crudely trying to eliminate languages." Last time I checked, less than half of the population in Guangzhou knew how to speak Cantonese.
- throwaway2037 5y ago
  Don't read this as me trying to defend CCP's policy to discourage non-Mandarin languages in China: What you wrote is somewhat misleading to readers not familiar with the region. There has been massive internal migration to Guangdong province in the last 30 years. These migrants speak Cantonese at varying levels. It would be more accurate to make a comment about multi-generation Guangdong residents and their knowledge of Cantonese. (If you want to discuss Shenzhen, there is virtually zero Cantonese used there, because it was only a fishing village with ~25k people when it was opened for trade. It is nearly 100% internal migrants -- mostly from outside Guangdong province.)
  - yorwba 5y ago
    It's not just recent migration to Guangdong province. The eastern half of Guangdong is traditionally Hakka-speaking. Most Hakkas don't speak Cantonese, and that shouldn't be surprising.
    - throwaway2037 5y ago
      I am confused by this comment. Are you talking about Chaozhou (潮州)? That city is on the border between Guangdong and Fujian (but lies in GD), but the locals are overwelming Canto speakers. There are many who have migrated to Hongkong over the last 75 years.
      - yorwba 5y ago
        Isn't Chaozhou mostly Teochew-speaking? Wikipedia claims there are 10 million Teochew speakers in Chaozhou while listing the total population as 2.7 million, which obviously doesn't add up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaozhou#Language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaozhou#Language (My guess is metropolitan area vs. city boundaries.) But given that Teochew is named after Chaozhou (modulo romanization) I would've expected it to be locally dominant over Cantonese. But what I was actually talking about were Huizhou, Heyuan, Meizhou etc. Basically, Cantonese extends as far east as Hong Kong and further east of that is marked as Hakka territory in the Language Atlas of China https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Map_of_sinitic_languages_full-en.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Map_of_s... Meixian Hakka from Meizhou in particular has a prominent position within Hakka culture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meixian_dialect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meixian_dialect
  - inkyoto 5y ago
    Yes, one can speak their own first Sinitic language on the mainland (and they do, and many even speak more than 2) and that is not banned. But they can't buy a textbook on their first language because the official policy is that everything that is not Mandarin is a «dialect», and dialects can't be studied (as in «are impossible to study due to not deserving to be studied»), therefore there is no need for textbooks.

by 07d046 5y ago

chemmail 5y ago

Do you live in Hong Kong? They are slowly but systematically and surely doing that to Cantonese.

07d046 5y ago
As far as I know, there is a gradual trend to push Mandarin at the expense of Cantonese, and there is reason for concern, but I doubt there's a connection between this and Apple's decision here. (There's a reason I said "crudely".)

tasogare 5y ago

> I don't think the CCP is so crudely trying to eliminate languages They are doing it. Sources: few HK friends that were really worried about the future of their language and culture. And this was before the security law.

The_suffocated 5y ago

> "...but I don't think the CCP is so crudely trying to eliminate languages." Last time I checked, less than half of the population in Guangzhou knew how to speak Cantonese.

throwaway2037 5y ago
Don't read this as me trying to defend CCP's policy to discourage non-Mandarin languages in China: What you wrote is somewhat misleading to readers not familiar with the region. There has been massive internal migration to Guangdong province in the last 30 years. These migrants speak Cantonese at varying levels. It would be more accurate to make a comment about multi-generation Guangdong residents and their knowledge of Cantonese. (If you want to discuss Shenzhen, there is virtually zero Cantonese used there, because it was only a fishing village with ~25k people when it was opened for trade. It is nearly 100% internal migrants -- mostly from outside Guangdong province.)
- yorwba 5y ago
  It's not just recent migration to Guangdong province. The eastern half of Guangdong is traditionally Hakka-speaking. Most Hakkas don't speak Cantonese, and that shouldn't be surprising.
  - throwaway2037 5y ago
    I am confused by this comment. Are you talking about Chaozhou (潮州)? That city is on the border between Guangdong and Fujian (but lies in GD), but the locals are overwelming Canto speakers. There are many who have migrated to Hongkong over the last 75 years.
    - yorwba 5y ago
      Isn't Chaozhou mostly Teochew-speaking? Wikipedia claims there are 10 million Teochew speakers in Chaozhou while listing the total population as 2.7 million, which obviously doesn't add up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaozhou#Language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaozhou#Language (My guess is metropolitan area vs. city boundaries.) But given that Teochew is named after Chaozhou (modulo romanization) I would've expected it to be locally dominant over Cantonese. But what I was actually talking about were Huizhou, Heyuan, Meizhou etc. Basically, Cantonese extends as far east as Hong Kong and further east of that is marked as Hakka territory in the Language Atlas of China https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Map_of_sinitic_languages_full-en.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Map_of_s... Meixian Hakka from Meizhou in particular has a prominent position within Hakka culture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meixian_dialect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meixian_dialect
- inkyoto 5y ago
  Yes, one can speak their own first Sinitic language on the mainland (and they do, and many even speak more than 2) and that is not banned. But they can't buy a textbook on their first language because the official policy is that everything that is not Mandarin is a «dialect», and dialects can't be studied (as in «are impossible to study due to not deserving to be studied»), therefore there is no need for textbooks.