3 ms·

The absolute figures are bitcoin uses about the equivalent of Sweden’s energy consumption every year. Renewable energy isn’t free and should be replacing legacy

The absolute figures are bitcoin uses about the equivalent of Sweden’s energy consumption every year. Renewable energy isn’t free and should be replacing legacy sources, not being used to do pretend work. Environmental is a huge factor.

nathias 5y ago
Can you make me a list of real vs pretend work so I can base my ethical decisions on it?
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  It's not a comprehensive list, but a good rule of thumb is that any computer spinning around computing a number that no one cares about the value of is pretend work.
  - nathias 5y ago
    so BTC would be real work because a lot of people care about those numbers, right?
    - tsimionescu 5y ago
      No, no one cares about the final numbers - they are just, as the Bitcoin paper explains, Proof of Work. The only point of doing those calculations is to prove that you have spent X processor cycles in service of Bitcoin. You could entirely replace the calculation (and checkers) with a different calculation and nothing whatsoever would change about bitcoin, because no one cares about the values. Conversely, if you found an algorithm that could compute those same values in microseconds on a calculator, bitcoin would plummet in an instant, because suddenly anyone with a calculator could run 99% attacks on the bitcoin network. The numbers aren't improtant, the busywork is.
      - nathias 5y ago
        Well yes, the values existing are important, the values semantics aren't, that's why its a proof of work.
uniqueid 5y ago
That's assuming Sweden's power grid is up 365 days a year, but we should subtract a few days to account for bitcoin ransomware attacks.
astrange 5y ago
> The absolute figures are bitcoin uses about the equivalent of Sweden’s energy consumption every year. Even using those sources I believe it's "electricity" consumption not "energy" consumption.
Vinceo 5y ago
Why should renewable energy be replacing legacy sources rather than bitcoins sources?

nathias 5y ago

Can you make me a list of real vs pretend work so I can base my ethical decisions on it?

tsimionescu 5y ago
It's not a comprehensive list, but a good rule of thumb is that any computer spinning around computing a number that no one cares about the value of is pretend work.
- nathias 5y ago
  so BTC would be real work because a lot of people care about those numbers, right?
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    No, no one cares about the final numbers - they are just, as the Bitcoin paper explains, Proof of Work. The only point of doing those calculations is to prove that you have spent X processor cycles in service of Bitcoin. You could entirely replace the calculation (and checkers) with a different calculation and nothing whatsoever would change about bitcoin, because no one cares about the values. Conversely, if you found an algorithm that could compute those same values in microseconds on a calculator, bitcoin would plummet in an instant, because suddenly anyone with a calculator could run 99% attacks on the bitcoin network. The numbers aren't improtant, the busywork is.
    - nathias 5y ago
      Well yes, the values existing are important, the values semantics aren't, that's why its a proof of work.

uniqueid 5y ago

That's assuming Sweden's power grid is up 365 days a year, but we should subtract a few days to account for bitcoin ransomware attacks.

astrange 5y ago

> The absolute figures are bitcoin uses about the equivalent of Sweden’s energy consumption every year. Even using those sources I believe it's "electricity" consumption not "energy" consumption.

Vinceo 5y ago

Why should renewable energy be replacing legacy sources rather than bitcoins sources?