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So why do Jazz purists dislike Kenny G? (And Smooth Jazz in general, which is much more accessible). I want to relax and enjoy music, not work hard to appreciat

by jkuria 5y ago

So why do Jazz purists dislike Kenny G? (And Smooth Jazz in general, which is much more accessible). I want to relax and enjoy music, not work hard to appreciate its intellectual rigor! If you want intellectual challenge then maybe you should enroll for a graduate program in Theoretical Physics :)

santiagobasulto 5y ago
I’m not a profesional musician, but I think it’s because of the lack of “boldness” of Smooth Jazz. Jazz might sound like an “old” style, but it was always bold, and audacious genre. You don’t have a 10year span without someone kicking the table and experimenting with something completely new and crazy (for the time being). Jazz is also consumed by people that know a lot about music, and these people get “bored” pretty quickly if they’re not stimulated by bold moves and perfect execution. And Miles had a lot to do with this (I didn’t read the article). Btw, there’s nothing wrong if you like Smooth Jazz or Kenny G or whatever. Music is music. Whatever makes you feel good.
eyelidlessness 5y ago
I’m only speaking from my taste here but… interesting music isn’t work. It’s just what catches your ear and your brain and your emotions. The “weird” jazz (I’m quoting one of my favorite live jazz drummers who correctly noted I “like when it gets weird”) isn’t work, for people who enjoy it. At least not passively enjoying it, as a musician I’m sure there’s a lot more thought process around what you can learn from it. But as a listener who likes it, it’s just really interesting to hear. It’s not a challenge or an intellectual pursuit.
leephillips 5y ago
It’s elevator music. (You asked.) I agree that the purpose is enjoyment. But art that demands attention, and, yes, some work, repays with a higher level of enjoyment. This is true for music, literature, movies, anything.
hluska 5y ago
If you want the long version, written by a qualified person, Pat Metheny’s views on Kenny G are well written and reasonably accessible: http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm If you’d like a short answer by someone who isn’t qualified, it comes down to the disparity between his record sales and talent. Purists feel he has sold a shit tonne of records despite not being up to the technical standards set by the great sax players. I’m not much of a Kenny G fan but I find that kind of criticism rather unwarranted. I don’t think it’s particularly fair to compare him to people like Coltrane or Cannonball as they’re almost completely different genres. To me (I’m not qualified), it’s like comparing baseball players to cricket players. All that blah blah blah aside, like what you like and be proud about it. Purists can be wrong and they’re definitely not you.
- rtsil 5y ago
  > I don’t think it’s particularly fair to compare him to people like Coltrane or Cannonball as they’re almost completely different genres. To me (I’m not qualified), it’s like comparing baseball players to cricket players. I agree, it is not fair. However, a more apt comparison would be between a top 3 major league baseball player and a top 3 little league player. And many people enjoy watching little league games (often when their kids are playing) and are not interested in pros, and that's totally their right. Edit: and I just realized my comparison is between Kenny G and Coltrane's performances. It is entirely possible, and even likely, that Kenny G can play at a high level, but he just gives his audience what they want.
  - hluska 5y ago
    Thanks for this reply!! :) I don't think my analogy was very effective, but I'm not sure the minor/major league baseball player analogy is much better. This one might just not be fit for analogies and the truth might be best. John Coltrane and Kenny G are extremely good at what they do. They do dramatically different things and that's okay. If you're right about Kenny G being able to play at a Coltrane-esque level, I'd argue that he's even better at marketing than music. It would mean that he could easily prove everyone wrong but he'd rather have the free press (and boatloads of cash) of infamy than bragging rights.
iworshipfaangs2 5y ago
You can listen to anything you want, but why should “intellectual challenge” be limited to a graduate program in theoretical physics? Should life be so simply divided into frivolous thoughtless moments of pleasure and relaxation and rigorous formal investigation of theoretical physics?
rtsil 5y ago
I like listening to music, not having music in the background. Maybe that's the difference. Music is like everything else, the more work you put into it, the more enjoyment you'll get. But it's perfectly understandable if non-musicians (or musicians not really interested in music theory, formal or informal) stick to Smooth Jazz and stay away from bebop and its successors, and prefer simple melodies and minimal harmony instead.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
Why do chefs dislike McDonald's?
seanhunter 5y ago
There are technical things we could discuss but it's tricky without going all music nerd on you so I'll argue by analogy from the visual arts. John Coltrane is the mac daddy saxophonist. He is the capo da tutti capi. The recordings of his golden period (eg Crescent, A love Supreme etc) are the Mona Lisa. Coltrane: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa#/media/File:Mona_Lisa,_by_Leonardo_da_Vinci,_from_C2RMF_retouched.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa#/media/File:Mona_Lis... By contrast Kenny Gs recordings are Trechikof's "Chinese Girl" - Extremely popular but kind of terrible. http://i.huffpost.com/gen/958528/images/o-CHINESEGIRL-facebook.jpg http://i.huffpost.com/gen/958528/images/o-CHINESEGIRL-facebo... Just like it's fine to prefer Phil Collins' version of "You Can't Hurry Love" to the original[1], it's fine to like Kenny G's music - you should like whatever you like. But it's not being a "purist" to dislike it. When people get to a certain level of education in their music taste they start to realise some of its shortcomings. For anyone intimidated by Coltrane, I recommend just getting "Ballads" or "Coltrane and Johnny Hartman". They are incredibly beautiful music that I have successfully played to all manner of non jazz enthusiasts. [1]Actually that one really isn't fine. He messes up the iconic James Jamerson bassline by removing the beautiful anticipated quavers that give the original so much drive. Once you hear it the Phil Collins version seems so incredibly pedestrian.

by jkuria 5y ago

santiagobasulto 5y ago

I’m not a profesional musician, but I think it’s because of the lack of “boldness” of Smooth Jazz. Jazz might sound like an “old” style, but it was always bold, and audacious genre. You don’t have a 10year span without someone kicking the table and experimenting with something completely new and crazy (for the time being). Jazz is also consumed by people that know a lot about music, and these people get “bored” pretty quickly if they’re not stimulated by bold moves and perfect execution. And Miles had a lot to do with this (I didn’t read the article). Btw, there’s nothing wrong if you like Smooth Jazz or Kenny G or whatever. Music is music. Whatever makes you feel good.

eyelidlessness 5y ago

I’m only speaking from my taste here but… interesting music isn’t work. It’s just what catches your ear and your brain and your emotions. The “weird” jazz (I’m quoting one of my favorite live jazz drummers who correctly noted I “like when it gets weird”) isn’t work, for people who enjoy it. At least not passively enjoying it, as a musician I’m sure there’s a lot more thought process around what you can learn from it. But as a listener who likes it, it’s just really interesting to hear. It’s not a challenge or an intellectual pursuit.

leephillips 5y ago

It’s elevator music. (You asked.) I agree that the purpose is enjoyment. But art that demands attention, and, yes, some work, repays with a higher level of enjoyment. This is true for music, literature, movies, anything.

hluska 5y ago

If you want the long version, written by a qualified person, Pat Metheny’s views on Kenny G are well written and reasonably accessible: http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm If you’d like a short answer by someone who isn’t qualified, it comes down to the disparity between his record sales and talent. Purists feel he has sold a shit tonne of records despite not being up to the technical standards set by the great sax players. I’m not much of a Kenny G fan but I find that kind of criticism rather unwarranted. I don’t think it’s particularly fair to compare him to people like Coltrane or Cannonball as they’re almost completely different genres. To me (I’m not qualified), it’s like comparing baseball players to cricket players. All that blah blah blah aside, like what you like and be proud about it. Purists can be wrong and they’re definitely not you.

rtsil 5y ago
> I don’t think it’s particularly fair to compare him to people like Coltrane or Cannonball as they’re almost completely different genres. To me (I’m not qualified), it’s like comparing baseball players to cricket players. I agree, it is not fair. However, a more apt comparison would be between a top 3 major league baseball player and a top 3 little league player. And many people enjoy watching little league games (often when their kids are playing) and are not interested in pros, and that's totally their right. Edit: and I just realized my comparison is between Kenny G and Coltrane's performances. It is entirely possible, and even likely, that Kenny G can play at a high level, but he just gives his audience what they want.
- hluska 5y ago
  Thanks for this reply!! :) I don't think my analogy was very effective, but I'm not sure the minor/major league baseball player analogy is much better. This one might just not be fit for analogies and the truth might be best. John Coltrane and Kenny G are extremely good at what they do. They do dramatically different things and that's okay. If you're right about Kenny G being able to play at a Coltrane-esque level, I'd argue that he's even better at marketing than music. It would mean that he could easily prove everyone wrong but he'd rather have the free press (and boatloads of cash) of infamy than bragging rights.

iworshipfaangs2 5y ago

You can listen to anything you want, but why should “intellectual challenge” be limited to a graduate program in theoretical physics? Should life be so simply divided into frivolous thoughtless moments of pleasure and relaxation and rigorous formal investigation of theoretical physics?

rtsil 5y ago

I like listening to music, not having music in the background. Maybe that's the difference. Music is like everything else, the more work you put into it, the more enjoyment you'll get. But it's perfectly understandable if non-musicians (or musicians not really interested in music theory, formal or informal) stick to Smooth Jazz and stay away from bebop and its successors, and prefer simple melodies and minimal harmony instead.

mixmastamyk 5y ago

Why do chefs dislike McDonald's?

seanhunter 5y ago

There are technical things we could discuss but it's tricky without going all music nerd on you so I'll argue by analogy from the visual arts. John Coltrane is the mac daddy saxophonist. He is the capo da tutti capi. The recordings of his golden period (eg Crescent, A love Supreme etc) are the Mona Lisa. Coltrane: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa#/media/File:Mona_Lisa,_by_Leonardo_da_Vinci,_from_C2RMF_retouched.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa#/media/File:Mona_Lis... By contrast Kenny Gs recordings are Trechikof's "Chinese Girl" - Extremely popular but kind of terrible. http://i.huffpost.com/gen/958528/images/o-CHINESEGIRL-facebook.jpg http://i.huffpost.com/gen/958528/images/o-CHINESEGIRL-facebo... Just like it's fine to prefer Phil Collins' version of "You Can't Hurry Love" to the original[1], it's fine to like Kenny G's music - you should like whatever you like. But it's not being a "purist" to dislike it. When people get to a certain level of education in their music taste they start to realise some of its shortcomings. For anyone intimidated by Coltrane, I recommend just getting "Ballads" or "Coltrane and Johnny Hartman". They are incredibly beautiful music that I have successfully played to all manner of non jazz enthusiasts. [1]Actually that one really isn't fine. He messes up the iconic James Jamerson bassline by removing the beautiful anticipated quavers that give the original so much drive. Once you hear it the Phil Collins version seems so incredibly pedestrian.