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For what it's worth. I am objectively a logical guy (many degrees in science, solid career in tech, rational) But the latest game changer in my life including

For what it's worth. I am objectively a logical guy (many degrees in science, solid career in tech, rational) But the latest game changer in my life including my ability to succeed, has been religious in nature. It's hard to describe to someone who hasn't felt this but it went something like this - once you accept that everything that exists is the purposeful creation of G-d, including you exactly as you are and your circumstance exactly as it is, it changed my perspective. Normally, my approach to situations has been one of anxiety - how do I steer this ship to good waters, how do I become someone who is capable of that, etc. I surely achieved a lot but also faces a lot of self doubt, procrastinated etc. Now, it's "easier." I recognize that G-d has blessed me to know who I am and what I am like, as well as plenty of opportunities to hone those things. And the roles I am in require just that from me. So all o need to do is go where I know I need to be and be me in those situations. Don't worry about my ability to see how the thing works out, just know that I am where I am intentionally and I am meant to be there. This has reduced my anxiety and procrastination a lot. And lest this sound hippy dippy, what I actually do for a living is steer large organizations, drive clarity, hold people empowered but accountable. I just do it now with more ease. Thank G-d.

spicymaki 5y ago
I am agnostic, but I do admit that religion does seem to make people cope well with the world. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/31/are-religious-people-happier-healthier-our-new-global-study-explores-this-question/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/31/are-religio... The thing that worries me about the all powerful father figure who has a plan for you and that plan is objectively good (no matter what), is that it trivializes causation. There are plenty of people in my family that refuse to learn from life experiences or try new things because "the plan" is already set in stone, and it is good (by definition) so why change anything?
- starkd 5y ago
  But we're not talking about causation here. Causation - or the scientific method - is just one small part of life. The source for motivation and creativity should be seen as a much grander scale than causation.
- xyzelement 5y ago
  // There are plenty of people in my family that refuse to learn from life experiences or try new things because "the plan" is already set in stone In my study of both Judaism and the yogic tradition, what you described is NOT the intention. Free will (fundamental to religion) means our choices matter. I am equally "capable" of helping or hurting someone. I realize I can do either, but I know which one resonates with me deeply and which one is abhorrent. All religion in its pure form is empowering people to grow and change for the better. Stagnation you are talking about is real, but those people are missing the point I fear.
  - Jedd 5y ago
    > Free will (fundamental to religion) ... That's quite the stretch. Most of the largest pseudo-monotheistic mythologise effectively preclude free will by virtue of their various predestination fables.
    - xyzelement 5y ago
      That's objectively not true. The reason religion talks about virtue and sin so much is because it's understood that each person has the power to chose one or the other. That's the fundamental free will, all stems from it.
      - Jedd 5y ago
        I don't think that's the (main) reason that religions focuses on virtue and sin, but that's kind of to one side. Free will does suggest that all prophets are making educated guesses, rather than receiving divine insight into future events. In Christian mythology there's the classic Matthew 26:21 bit that atheists like to point out in any discussion about free will (or lack of). I don't have any insight into the texts of the other two large organised religions, but I'm sure there's a some number of distant predictions in those that stretch the 'everyone has free will' claim.
- arrosenberg 5y ago
  Different religions bring different views on it. The puritans believed that their material work improving the land for elect humans, and the wealth that resulted, was a sign of divine grace. Other religions and sects of Christianity see wealth as abhorrent.
- ipython 5y ago
  I'm sorry to hear about the folks in your family who believe that way. In my experience and opinion, that's not the message that should be learned from belief in a higher power. The best way to describe the difference is through a parable that's often told - the man who is stuck on his roof top during a flood. The man is stuck on top of his roof, praying to God that he should be saved from the rising water. A series of first responders arrive, by boat, by helicopter, etc; the man waves them all off, saying "God will save me". After the man drowns, he meets God in anger, saying "why did you not save me?" God replies, "I sent a boat and a helicopter.. what more do you expect?" The message I get from this parable is that your life experiences are far from pre-ordained, and that you are not hopelessly dependent on some other higher power for your welfare. Exactly the opposite! You must seize the opportunities you're given and grow to appreciate and nurture the natural abilities you have in order to live a fulfilling life.
  - stnmtn 5y ago
    I've always wondered what the response is to people who are in that situation, but no boats or helicopters show up, and they simply don't survive. How does that interact with god's plan? Please don't take this as a "Gotcha" question, it's just something I've always wondered
    - ipython 5y ago
      I don’t consider that a gotcha question at all. There are so many examples of evil in the world so it is easy to question the role of God’s plan. I’m not the best person to ask as I don’t necessarily believe that there is some sort of master plan. I’m also not overly religious even though it may sound that way in this thread. I think that religion can give people a sense of meaning deeper than yourself- something that is sorely lacking in today’s society IMO. As far as your question, I would recommend reading Viktor Frankl’s book A Mans Search for Meaning. It’s powerful as any book you’ll ever read and give you an insight to how at least one person persevered through the most horrific of circumstances.
starkd 5y ago
No idea why this was down-voted. Was it because you used the G word? It's always been my experience that motivation depends on the spirit you can manufacture in yourself.
- FuckOffPriest 5y ago
  He's getting downvoted because he calls himself rational and logical and then proceeds to tell us that he believes in fairy tails.
  - xyzelement 5y ago
    The alias you created to make this post speaks to the pain and darkness that must be your life and I am sorry for whatever is going on. On whether I am rational or not, I'll just say this: Einstein believed what I believe. Newton believed what I believe. That doesn't mean I am right but I am certainly in good company.
    - tasty_freeze 5y ago
      https://allthatsinteresting.com/albert-einstein-god-letter https://allthatsinteresting.com/albert-einstein-god-letter “For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition… As far as my experience goes, they are in fact no better than other human groups, even if they are protected from the worst excesses by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot perceive anything ‘chosen’ about them.”
    - akiselev 5y ago
      > On whether I am rational or not, I'll just say this: Einstein believed what I believe. Newton believed what I believe. That doesn't mean I am right but I am certainly in good company. No, they did not [1] [2]. The two believed such diametrically opposed things that I can't believe anyone could claim to be in the company of both at the same time. Please leave the condescension at the door. It does not reflect well on your beliefs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_vi... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newto...
ipython 5y ago
I’m sorry you’re getting downvoted. I can certainly empathize that believing in something larger than yourself can help alleviate a lot of anxiety and provide purpose and meaning that is sorely lacking in our every day lives. God bless and I hope your beliefs help provide inner peace.
knrz 5y ago
I think you’re onto something that I’ve been practicing more and more as well… that there exists this calm, knowing but wordless, essence of mind. I call it the Tao, Loch Kelly calls it Level 3 (of 5), and I think you call it G-d. As someone who was raised with a light touch of Islam, defected the Atheism only to circle back to Zen and Taoism, I’m looking for the “link” between Abrahamic religions and (my Western interpretation) of Eastern practices.
- xyzelement 5y ago
  Very cool, as much as I love the wealth and richness of where I settled, I think the primary thing is the recognition of the fundamental principle of monotheism that there's only one supreme power/creator/etc and that all stems from that. On the level down, as I study Judaism deeper and esoterically, I find concepts that are conceptually aligned to concepts I found deep in Yogic tradition. I think the primary divine spark is a man waking up and going "there's more to this, I want to connect to it emotionally and intellectually" -- that's the starting point of religion. Whichever path you take to explore that will end up in a conceptually similar place I think (at least based on these experiences.) Good luck!
- beauzero 5y ago
  Christ the Eternal Tao by Heiromonk Damascene was an interesting read that brings a different perspective than Westernized Christianity.
- EinsDueTresFour 5y ago
  I think there's a high chance that they are all linked. That perhaps the founders of each great religion were all "teachers at the same school", but that the teachings they brought to humanity were given according to humanity's state of evolution, similar to how students have to go through different grades. Each teacher would then teach only what that grade is ready to learn, though they have all the knowledge.
- perfmode 5y ago
  I highly recommend The Wisdom Jesus by Cynthia Bourgeolt.
dehrmann 5y ago
> I am where I am intentionally and I am meant to be there Sounds very Calvinist.
ako 5y ago
Why do you need god to get to this state? Why can't you achieve the same by just recognizing nature/chance blessed you with who you are and what you can do?
- perfmode 5y ago
  hypothetically, how would it feel to one day realize that God and nature and chance and one’s very own true nature are one and the same?
  - noisy_boy 5y ago
    Sure, then we wouldn't need the mythology around God as we have already have been trying to learn about nature and ourselves for a long time and can continue to do so without the magic bit.
    - libertine 5y ago
      I'm an atheist and I don't agree with you. I think mythology is indeed necessary, not only necessary it's proven to work since these narratives survived for thousands of years, across many countries and cultures. So maybe it's something deeply rooted in humans, since one of our great sources of success as a species was the ability to pass on information through generations, allowing it to compound. And it makes sense that it works, if all narratives were literal then they'd be quite boring, maybe less memorable. Scientific literature has it's own way of conveying information, but serves a different purpose, without magic and mythology. I think very few people look at religious books as scientific material/source, maybe a very small, but loud, minority.
      - agumonkey 5y ago
        I have a similar idea I believe, that whether or not the concepts are true, their effects on human spirits or groups spirit is enough to use them and keep them going.
        5y ago
agumonkey 5y ago
Isnt this just a way to bail out when facing too much complexity (and the universe is indeed too large for us to use logic at this scale) ? I kinda feel like you beside the notion of God. I understand that living in anxiety (my previous way of living) is not optimal. That things are too chaotic, and often relying on paradoxically blind trust can yield better solutions. Paradoxical in the sense that trust also help you to see things calmer and clearer which is a requirement for reasoned thinking. I guess this ties into the problem of living in chaos[0], which is how the world used to be, and probably how humans managed to go through with such high levels of uncertainty. [0] pardon the link but trading also exemplify this.
- xyzelement 5y ago
  // Isnt this just a way to bail out when facing too much complexity I understand your point and if it was "just" that it would be valuable enough as you say. The only thing I can say for my case, is I came to this point through religious study that was motivated by a search for truth. This calmness is an unexpected side effect, it was not the motivator.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    Oh and btw my phrasing may sound a bit harsh and personal but I was asking about the general idea you mentioned, not attacking you. (Just in case it might felt that way on your side of the screen). I just failed to write it clearer. What caused you to seek truth (even though I guess most of us have this reflex 24/7) ? Then chose to do so through religious study ?
    - xyzelement 5y ago
      Sorry for delayed response, it's so much easier to get sucked in arguing with the doubters than to answer someone curious like yourself. To answer your question, part of it has always been there. Eg my parents raised me to always question and grow. Meaning, if I have a day where I just ate/played/slept with nothing to show for it, it didn't feel good. If I learned and understood something new then it's a good day. So I was kinda bootstrapped with that approach. Then over my life (I turned 40 this year) I have been exposed to different things that I approached with open mindedness. When I got more exposure to at first yoga and then Judaism, I recognized on both of these things a tradition of people trying to push their levels of understanding, in the same way that I am compelled to. To a naive person religion comes across as dogmatic, just unquestioned answers, but I quickly recognized that religion is really about asking the biggest questions there are and then the smartest people of their generations have spent cumulative millennia contemplating the answers. So it slowly but surely resonated with me. It's kind of like.. imagine someone never had watermelon until they were 30, but once they tasted it they loved it. The reality is that they must have always loved watermelon they just didn't know it. And luckily they were open minded enough to taste it which let them discover that they had this hunger within them to begin with.
dsego 5y ago
Sounds like believing in destiny and accepting that some things are out of your control. Helps to know yourself first and recognize when you can or can't make a change. Of course, one needs not to dwell on the past too much either. I don't think it takes religion to have this outlook.
tetranomiga 5y ago
> what I actually do for a living is steer large organizations, drive clarity, hold people empowered but accountable Cool, so now instead of having anxiety of how to make complicated and wide-reaching decisions, you've told yourself that a deity is guiding you so you don't have to second-guess yourself, and when shit hits the fan it wasn't your fault anyways because you were just trusting the deity. All you've done is shift responsibility and burden off yourself, of _course_ that makes you feel better! It's very troublesome that somebody steering large organizations, as you claim, has this irresponsible mindset.
- xyzelement 5y ago
  Not at all. I still apply myself hardcore, even more so, because I can do it without the anxiety of uncertainty of the outcome. It's a strictly better way.
  - tetranomiga 5y ago
    > because I can do it without the anxiety of uncertainty of the outcome That's like saying you're fine driving at 90mph in the rain because Jesus is on your side. You're choosing to not feel the true weight of your responsibility because it's easier to just "have faith" that Jesus will take the wheel. That doesn't sound strictly better at all, that sounds irresponsible and immature.
    - xyzelement 5y ago
      You are intentionally misunderstanding but I will explain for others. To correct your analogy: We have a destination in mind. We know it's down this dark and rainy road. I can't foresee every twist and turn on this road and I am able to be at peace with that. This makes me a better driver because I am able to focus my heart and soul and energy on the road on front of me, without being distracted by what I don't and can't know. I control the controllable and I know the knowable - and I do that no less well than when I was areligious. The difference is now I give no thought to the uncontrollable and unknowable - that's on G-ds hands. I focus on what's in mine.
filoeleven 5y ago
I think anyone interested in religion (whether following one, debating them, or studying them) will find William James’s lecture The Will To Believe worthwhile. Here’s an excerpt from a synopsis[0], the full text is also freely available[1]. > James argues that we may be justified in adopting a belief even if we don't have enough prior evidence in support of it, and in some cases, 1) we may only have access to supporting evidence only after we have adopted the belief, or 2) our adoption of the belief may make the belief true. For James, religious beliefs are paradigm examples of such beliefs. This essay is responsible for the term “leap of faith,” where one’s ability to follow through with something depends upon their belief that they are able to. This is applicable to part of the scientific process as well: following an insight is what gives rise to hypotheses. [0] https://godandgoodlife.nd.edu/digital-essays/the-will-to-believe/ https://godandgoodlife.nd.edu/digital-essays/the-will-to-bel... [1] https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20090714151749/http://falcon.jmu.edu/~omearawm/ph101willtobelieve.html https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20090714151749/http://falcon.jmu....

spicymaki 5y ago

I am agnostic, but I do admit that religion does seem to make people cope well with the world. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/31/are-religious-people-happier-healthier-our-new-global-study-explores-this-question/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/31/are-religio... The thing that worries me about the all powerful father figure who has a plan for you and that plan is objectively good (no matter what), is that it trivializes causation. There are plenty of people in my family that refuse to learn from life experiences or try new things because "the plan" is already set in stone, and it is good (by definition) so why change anything?

starkd 5y ago
But we're not talking about causation here. Causation - or the scientific method - is just one small part of life. The source for motivation and creativity should be seen as a much grander scale than causation.
xyzelement 5y ago
// There are plenty of people in my family that refuse to learn from life experiences or try new things because "the plan" is already set in stone In my study of both Judaism and the yogic tradition, what you described is NOT the intention. Free will (fundamental to religion) means our choices matter. I am equally "capable" of helping or hurting someone. I realize I can do either, but I know which one resonates with me deeply and which one is abhorrent. All religion in its pure form is empowering people to grow and change for the better. Stagnation you are talking about is real, but those people are missing the point I fear.
- Jedd 5y ago
  > Free will (fundamental to religion) ... That's quite the stretch. Most of the largest pseudo-monotheistic mythologise effectively preclude free will by virtue of their various predestination fables.
  - xyzelement 5y ago
    That's objectively not true. The reason religion talks about virtue and sin so much is because it's understood that each person has the power to chose one or the other. That's the fundamental free will, all stems from it.
    - Jedd 5y ago
      I don't think that's the (main) reason that religions focuses on virtue and sin, but that's kind of to one side. Free will does suggest that all prophets are making educated guesses, rather than receiving divine insight into future events. In Christian mythology there's the classic Matthew 26:21 bit that atheists like to point out in any discussion about free will (or lack of). I don't have any insight into the texts of the other two large organised religions, but I'm sure there's a some number of distant predictions in those that stretch the 'everyone has free will' claim.
arrosenberg 5y ago
Different religions bring different views on it. The puritans believed that their material work improving the land for elect humans, and the wealth that resulted, was a sign of divine grace. Other religions and sects of Christianity see wealth as abhorrent.
ipython 5y ago
I'm sorry to hear about the folks in your family who believe that way. In my experience and opinion, that's not the message that should be learned from belief in a higher power. The best way to describe the difference is through a parable that's often told - the man who is stuck on his roof top during a flood. The man is stuck on top of his roof, praying to God that he should be saved from the rising water. A series of first responders arrive, by boat, by helicopter, etc; the man waves them all off, saying "God will save me". After the man drowns, he meets God in anger, saying "why did you not save me?" God replies, "I sent a boat and a helicopter.. what more do you expect?" The message I get from this parable is that your life experiences are far from pre-ordained, and that you are not hopelessly dependent on some other higher power for your welfare. Exactly the opposite! You must seize the opportunities you're given and grow to appreciate and nurture the natural abilities you have in order to live a fulfilling life.
- stnmtn 5y ago
  I've always wondered what the response is to people who are in that situation, but no boats or helicopters show up, and they simply don't survive. How does that interact with god's plan? Please don't take this as a "Gotcha" question, it's just something I've always wondered
  - ipython 5y ago
    I don’t consider that a gotcha question at all. There are so many examples of evil in the world so it is easy to question the role of God’s plan. I’m not the best person to ask as I don’t necessarily believe that there is some sort of master plan. I’m also not overly religious even though it may sound that way in this thread. I think that religion can give people a sense of meaning deeper than yourself- something that is sorely lacking in today’s society IMO. As far as your question, I would recommend reading Viktor Frankl’s book A Mans Search for Meaning. It’s powerful as any book you’ll ever read and give you an insight to how at least one person persevered through the most horrific of circumstances.

starkd 5y ago

No idea why this was down-voted. Was it because you used the G word? It's always been my experience that motivation depends on the spirit you can manufacture in yourself.

FuckOffPriest 5y ago
He's getting downvoted because he calls himself rational and logical and then proceeds to tell us that he believes in fairy tails.
- xyzelement 5y ago
  The alias you created to make this post speaks to the pain and darkness that must be your life and I am sorry for whatever is going on. On whether I am rational or not, I'll just say this: Einstein believed what I believe. Newton believed what I believe. That doesn't mean I am right but I am certainly in good company.
  - tasty_freeze 5y ago
    https://allthatsinteresting.com/albert-einstein-god-letter https://allthatsinteresting.com/albert-einstein-god-letter “For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition… As far as my experience goes, they are in fact no better than other human groups, even if they are protected from the worst excesses by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot perceive anything ‘chosen’ about them.”
  - akiselev 5y ago
    > On whether I am rational or not, I'll just say this: Einstein believed what I believe. Newton believed what I believe. That doesn't mean I am right but I am certainly in good company. No, they did not [1] [2]. The two believed such diametrically opposed things that I can't believe anyone could claim to be in the company of both at the same time. Please leave the condescension at the door. It does not reflect well on your beliefs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_vi... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newto...

ipython 5y ago

I’m sorry you’re getting downvoted. I can certainly empathize that believing in something larger than yourself can help alleviate a lot of anxiety and provide purpose and meaning that is sorely lacking in our every day lives. God bless and I hope your beliefs help provide inner peace.

knrz 5y ago

I think you’re onto something that I’ve been practicing more and more as well… that there exists this calm, knowing but wordless, essence of mind. I call it the Tao, Loch Kelly calls it Level 3 (of 5), and I think you call it G-d. As someone who was raised with a light touch of Islam, defected the Atheism only to circle back to Zen and Taoism, I’m looking for the “link” between Abrahamic religions and (my Western interpretation) of Eastern practices.

xyzelement 5y ago
Very cool, as much as I love the wealth and richness of where I settled, I think the primary thing is the recognition of the fundamental principle of monotheism that there's only one supreme power/creator/etc and that all stems from that. On the level down, as I study Judaism deeper and esoterically, I find concepts that are conceptually aligned to concepts I found deep in Yogic tradition. I think the primary divine spark is a man waking up and going "there's more to this, I want to connect to it emotionally and intellectually" -- that's the starting point of religion. Whichever path you take to explore that will end up in a conceptually similar place I think (at least based on these experiences.) Good luck!
beauzero 5y ago
Christ the Eternal Tao by Heiromonk Damascene was an interesting read that brings a different perspective than Westernized Christianity.
EinsDueTresFour 5y ago
I think there's a high chance that they are all linked. That perhaps the founders of each great religion were all "teachers at the same school", but that the teachings they brought to humanity were given according to humanity's state of evolution, similar to how students have to go through different grades. Each teacher would then teach only what that grade is ready to learn, though they have all the knowledge.
perfmode 5y ago
I highly recommend The Wisdom Jesus by Cynthia Bourgeolt.

dehrmann 5y ago

> I am where I am intentionally and I am meant to be there Sounds very Calvinist.

ako 5y ago

Why do you need god to get to this state? Why can't you achieve the same by just recognizing nature/chance blessed you with who you are and what you can do?

perfmode 5y ago
hypothetically, how would it feel to one day realize that God and nature and chance and one’s very own true nature are one and the same?
- noisy_boy 5y ago
  Sure, then we wouldn't need the mythology around God as we have already have been trying to learn about nature and ourselves for a long time and can continue to do so without the magic bit.
  - libertine 5y ago
    I'm an atheist and I don't agree with you. I think mythology is indeed necessary, not only necessary it's proven to work since these narratives survived for thousands of years, across many countries and cultures. So maybe it's something deeply rooted in humans, since one of our great sources of success as a species was the ability to pass on information through generations, allowing it to compound. And it makes sense that it works, if all narratives were literal then they'd be quite boring, maybe less memorable. Scientific literature has it's own way of conveying information, but serves a different purpose, without magic and mythology. I think very few people look at religious books as scientific material/source, maybe a very small, but loud, minority.
    - agumonkey 5y ago
      I have a similar idea I believe, that whether or not the concepts are true, their effects on human spirits or groups spirit is enough to use them and keep them going.
      - 5y ago

agumonkey 5y ago

Isnt this just a way to bail out when facing too much complexity (and the universe is indeed too large for us to use logic at this scale) ? I kinda feel like you beside the notion of God. I understand that living in anxiety (my previous way of living) is not optimal. That things are too chaotic, and often relying on paradoxically blind trust can yield better solutions. Paradoxical in the sense that trust also help you to see things calmer and clearer which is a requirement for reasoned thinking. I guess this ties into the problem of living in chaos[0], which is how the world used to be, and probably how humans managed to go through with such high levels of uncertainty. [0] pardon the link but trading also exemplify this.

xyzelement 5y ago
// Isnt this just a way to bail out when facing too much complexity I understand your point and if it was "just" that it would be valuable enough as you say. The only thing I can say for my case, is I came to this point through religious study that was motivated by a search for truth. This calmness is an unexpected side effect, it was not the motivator.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  Oh and btw my phrasing may sound a bit harsh and personal but I was asking about the general idea you mentioned, not attacking you. (Just in case it might felt that way on your side of the screen). I just failed to write it clearer. What caused you to seek truth (even though I guess most of us have this reflex 24/7) ? Then chose to do so through religious study ?
  - xyzelement 5y ago
    Sorry for delayed response, it's so much easier to get sucked in arguing with the doubters than to answer someone curious like yourself. To answer your question, part of it has always been there. Eg my parents raised me to always question and grow. Meaning, if I have a day where I just ate/played/slept with nothing to show for it, it didn't feel good. If I learned and understood something new then it's a good day. So I was kinda bootstrapped with that approach. Then over my life (I turned 40 this year) I have been exposed to different things that I approached with open mindedness. When I got more exposure to at first yoga and then Judaism, I recognized on both of these things a tradition of people trying to push their levels of understanding, in the same way that I am compelled to. To a naive person religion comes across as dogmatic, just unquestioned answers, but I quickly recognized that religion is really about asking the biggest questions there are and then the smartest people of their generations have spent cumulative millennia contemplating the answers. So it slowly but surely resonated with me. It's kind of like.. imagine someone never had watermelon until they were 30, but once they tasted it they loved it. The reality is that they must have always loved watermelon they just didn't know it. And luckily they were open minded enough to taste it which let them discover that they had this hunger within them to begin with.

dsego 5y ago

Sounds like believing in destiny and accepting that some things are out of your control. Helps to know yourself first and recognize when you can or can't make a change. Of course, one needs not to dwell on the past too much either. I don't think it takes religion to have this outlook.

tetranomiga 5y ago

> what I actually do for a living is steer large organizations, drive clarity, hold people empowered but accountable Cool, so now instead of having anxiety of how to make complicated and wide-reaching decisions, you've told yourself that a deity is guiding you so you don't have to second-guess yourself, and when shit hits the fan it wasn't your fault anyways because you were just trusting the deity. All you've done is shift responsibility and burden off yourself, of _course_ that makes you feel better! It's very troublesome that somebody steering large organizations, as you claim, has this irresponsible mindset.

xyzelement 5y ago
Not at all. I still apply myself hardcore, even more so, because I can do it without the anxiety of uncertainty of the outcome. It's a strictly better way.
- tetranomiga 5y ago
  > because I can do it without the anxiety of uncertainty of the outcome That's like saying you're fine driving at 90mph in the rain because Jesus is on your side. You're choosing to not feel the true weight of your responsibility because it's easier to just "have faith" that Jesus will take the wheel. That doesn't sound strictly better at all, that sounds irresponsible and immature.
  - xyzelement 5y ago
    You are intentionally misunderstanding but I will explain for others. To correct your analogy: We have a destination in mind. We know it's down this dark and rainy road. I can't foresee every twist and turn on this road and I am able to be at peace with that. This makes me a better driver because I am able to focus my heart and soul and energy on the road on front of me, without being distracted by what I don't and can't know. I control the controllable and I know the knowable - and I do that no less well than when I was areligious. The difference is now I give no thought to the uncontrollable and unknowable - that's on G-ds hands. I focus on what's in mine.

filoeleven 5y ago

I think anyone interested in religion (whether following one, debating them, or studying them) will find William James’s lecture The Will To Believe worthwhile. Here’s an excerpt from a synopsis[0], the full text is also freely available[1]. > James argues that we may be justified in adopting a belief even if we don't have enough prior evidence in support of it, and in some cases, 1) we may only have access to supporting evidence only after we have adopted the belief, or 2) our adoption of the belief may make the belief true. For James, religious beliefs are paradigm examples of such beliefs. This essay is responsible for the term “leap of faith,” where one’s ability to follow through with something depends upon their belief that they are able to. This is applicable to part of the scientific process as well: following an insight is what gives rise to hypotheses. [0] https://godandgoodlife.nd.edu/digital-essays/the-will-to-believe/ https://godandgoodlife.nd.edu/digital-essays/the-will-to-bel... [1] https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20090714151749/http://falcon.jmu.edu/~omearawm/ph101willtobelieve.html https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20090714151749/http://falcon.jmu....