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Ok, I tried to read that, but it feels like they are about to sell me something. So much self-help writing sounds like this and it just doesn't resonate with me

Ok, I tried to read that, but it feels like they are about to sell me something. So much self-help writing sounds like this and it just doesn't resonate with me. That said, I'm a born procrastinator with undiagnosed ADHD and I've managed to accomplish a few things, mostly after I turned 30. Here is all I would say helped me: First, accepting who I am, that everybody has some mental struggles and this is mine. Second, internalizing that mood follows motion. I can't sit around waiting to feel right before starting/doing something. You will never feel right. It's the doing of the thing that makes you feel right. Just start shit. That's the battle. Finally, conserve momentum at all costs. When I'm really getting things done, keeping grinding, extend the streaks, fewer cold starts makes my life easier.

dgb23 5y ago
I got down the first one mostly. The second one is gradually improving. But the third one is actually hard, because it is a double edged sword. My current strategy is to contain momentum so it doesn’t expand into obsession and deliberately give myself time to sleep over things. Sleep is precious, it recovers but it also works your brain. You get perspective and connect dots. I guess I‘m cautious because I was so bad at the first two, that I clinged on the third, which is exhausting and unhealthy.
- rnoorda 5y ago
  Containing momentum is a common issue for me as well. When I start learning something, I tend to become obsessive, spend 30 hours over a weekend on it, and then burn out. Once my energy evens out I often need to work on continuing momentum, but deliberately limiting my energy spent at the beginning of a new project tends to get me further long-term.
  - tpaulin 5y ago
    What tricks and tips do you find help you with that? I've yet to find a silver bullet. I found forcing myself not to sit on a task for hours on end and physically moving when fatigue sets in (something incredibly difficult to notice when one is fatigued).
    - rnoorda 5y ago
      It helps to plan something at a certain time, even just going to dinner or on walk. Even if I'm totally engrossed in whatever new project I'm doing, I need to leave. I can keep thinking about it and stay excited, while not burning out on it. I also try to find things I can work on a little bit every day for a longer period of time. If I want to learn a foreign language or the fancy programming framework of the month, I do much better if it's used every day for 15 minutes than all at once and then forgotten.
void_mint 5y ago
> with undiagnosed ADHD If you're undiagnosed, how do you know?
- encoderer 5y ago
  I read the book Driven to Distraction and it changed my life.
  - void_mint 5y ago
    So...you don't know, right?
    - encoderer 5y ago
      Ok bud. Whatever you say.
      - void_mint 5y ago
        You don't think it's kinda shitty to people that actually have a disorder, to just assume you have it because you read a book? You don't think it's possible that reading that book could be beneficial for those that don't have ADHD as well? Thanks, bud.
        encoderer 5y ago
        No, i really don't. I suffer with it too, still do, it still impacts my life every day. If you haven't read it, check out that book.
        void_mint 5y ago
        Well...without getting into any sort of "you don't actually know what you're struggling with", it's probably best to just say sorry you're struggling. Hopefully you seek actual help. Best of luck.
yarinr 5y ago
> Second, internalizing that mood follows motion. I can't sit around waiting to feel right before starting/doing something. You will never feel right. It's the doing of the thing that makes you feel right. Just start shit. That's the battle. I can really resonate with that.
shannifin 5y ago
> Just start shit. That's the battle. In my experience, even after starting, some things just remain difficult. No matter how long I manage to keep momentum, that inner voice keeps saying: "This is hard. This is boring. This is time consuming. This is boring. This is uninteresting. I want to do something else." It's like rolling a stone up a hill; there is just no momentum to gain. Sometimes a perspective change can help, but that can be easier said than done.
- amatecha 5y ago
  Huh, yeah I can hugely relate to this. That ever-present sensation of dislike of what is happening, even while "getting something done". The feeling that it's basically the last thing I want to be doing, but there's also nothing else I want to do either :)
- kiba 5y ago
  My weird thought sometime says "I don't want to make progress but instead spin wheels in mud" which means I am productively procrastinating.
- least 5y ago
  When it's something like exercise, it's a bit easier to power through that inner voice. I can feel that and it might persist through the entire workout, but it's doable. I don't have to think about much, just have to perform physical tasks. It also does help "clear up" my brain in a sense, much like sitting in the shower does. This can create better results for other tasks that require more brainpower, though the effects don't really persist very long after I stop exercising, unfortunately. Sometimes starting on tasks that require my brain to work with me can be enough momentum to push start it into whatever it is that I need to complete. But a lot of the time it is exactly as you describe; no matter how long I work at it it's extremely hard to get through or even impossible. If my brain doesn't want to retain information or process information to create something, it won't. There are strategies and things that can help with this, but a lot of them require external resources and understanding. Having well defined tasks with good external accountability can be really helpful. Having strong incentives for completing tasks can help too. The problem is that finding people that can accommodate your needs here is pretty damn hard.
spicymaki 5y ago
> First, accepting who I am, that everybody has some mental struggles and this is mine. Agreed, I think that acceptance is a great start. The next stage I think is accommodation. Organize your life in a way that compensates for the struggle.
fnord77 5y ago
one trick I do is to start in the middle of something. Not at the beginning. So I'm actually never starting something
- l33t2328 5y ago
  How do you do that practically speaking?
  - frankling_ 5y ago
    ft off last time and just continue from that point onwards. The essential part is to leave something over for next time, instead of finis
pomian 5y ago
Beautifully written. Thanks for your comment. It touches many of us around you. It's a message for all of us; doesn't matter - the label, what matters - the actions. It truly helps to hear that others think and have the same feelings.
benohear 5y ago
Tiny Habits by B.J. Fogg would likely help you further. The key trick is to start really small to remove the hurdle of getting going and establishing the habit, and returning to small in moments of low motivation or other impediment (eg 1 pushup will keep the momentum. 0 pushups won't)
- Leparamour 5y ago
  >eg 1 pushup will keep the momentum. 0 pushups won't Any idea, what would the equivalent be for this single pushup applied to coding/programming?
  - donny2018 5y ago
    Single git push?
  - zentiggr 5y ago
    When I feel daunted by a repetitive editing task, or intimidated by something I don't know yet... The repetitive tasks I choose a small number of steps, something I can accomplish in 5, maybe 10 minutes, and plan to stop and do something else for a bit. Read an article, stare out a window at nature, play a couple of minutes of a game. Then I do another set of changes until I start to lose focus and do a brain break. Rinse and repeat. If I feel like I don't know where to start, I need to learn something, I listen to what the anxiety is screaming and pick out one question that will fill in the next level of knowledge, no matter how silly it sounds. ("Ok, you know <html>, and <head> and <body>... what's the next level in <body>?") Every time my knowledge hoovering starts to falter, I stop and pull out just one next question... And equivalents for other circumstances, of course. Those are just my most common roadblocks.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Just to latch onto the undiagnosed ADHD bit: Having it diagnosed formally may help, getting medicated for it might help, but... it's not a panacea. My girlfriend (diagnosed mid-30's and on slow release medication) describes it as a mood stabilizer moreso than a magic cure. Doesn't fix procrastination. I tried it once (trying the medication is part of the diagnosis), I found myself switching tasks with Intent and being really focused on one thing at a time, vs my usual mode of "multitasking".
zingar 5y ago
> Mostly after I turned 30 Me too! It does coincide with periods of medication, but this decade has been substantially better than the last. I hadn't thought about that timing until now.
iovrthoughtthis 5y ago
this heartening. thanks! did you ever get any mentorship? i’ve started to feel that i would really benefit from a mentor, probably someone with experience of executive function disorders etc.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jonathanstrange 5y ago
My concern is generally that those self-help people practically never provide reasonable evidence for their claims, nor do they provide reasonably detailed accounts of how they evaluated their methodology. In fact, the vast majority of self-help advice I've seen in my life so far was entirely based on anecdotal evidence, survivor bias, obviously inadequate generalizations ("if I can do it this way, you can do it this way, too"), and an incredible amount of aggressive immunization to critique ("if you're sceptical about anything I say, you already have the wrong mindset and will never achieve anything"). It's very off-putting to someone with a background in science.
- hardlianotion 5y ago
  I'm not sure I require proof as such. But I am more likely to give something a try if I think there is something that might help me. I know that nobody fits into the statistical mainstream for everything.
dalbasal 5y ago
Similar story, just older and diagnosed. I'll add: - name it. Some writers call it "resistance." You can call it Philip, Satan or whatever. It helps with recognition. - don't be afraid to be quirky. Have 3 desks. Do jumping jacks every 9 minutes. Whatever works. The overt act of battling in itself can help a lot.
onion2k 5y ago
Just start shit. I am amazing at starting. I start so many projects. My way of procrastinating is to start something new rather than work on what I should be working on. I absolutely suck at sticking with something until it's done. I am not a "completer finisher". Suggesting someone like me should "Just start shit." is literally the worst advice. :)
- bittercynic 5y ago
  This is a slightly different meaning of start. It doesn't mean to start something _new_ necessarily.
  - endymi0n 5y ago
    This. Just start finishing! :) „Just“ as in: I‘m still trying to figure this stuff out as a lifelong procrastinator but other ingredients than momentum conservation which was also huge for me were self-acceptance, self-forgiveness and especially „Tiny Habits“ (the book) Establishing triggers in my life that put me back on track in autopilot mode were some of the largest game changers for me. The biggest one being that I now have a 10 step go-to-bed routine that sets my next-morning-self up for a great mood and start into the day. Plus, it‘s a gentle, daily reminder of caring and being gentle to myself.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  I think "start the thing" here refers to things you might not want to do right now -- like your job, for example. I don't think they were talking about your hobbies.

dgb23 5y ago

I got down the first one mostly. The second one is gradually improving. But the third one is actually hard, because it is a double edged sword. My current strategy is to contain momentum so it doesn’t expand into obsession and deliberately give myself time to sleep over things. Sleep is precious, it recovers but it also works your brain. You get perspective and connect dots. I guess I‘m cautious because I was so bad at the first two, that I clinged on the third, which is exhausting and unhealthy.

rnoorda 5y ago
Containing momentum is a common issue for me as well. When I start learning something, I tend to become obsessive, spend 30 hours over a weekend on it, and then burn out. Once my energy evens out I often need to work on continuing momentum, but deliberately limiting my energy spent at the beginning of a new project tends to get me further long-term.
- tpaulin 5y ago
  What tricks and tips do you find help you with that? I've yet to find a silver bullet. I found forcing myself not to sit on a task for hours on end and physically moving when fatigue sets in (something incredibly difficult to notice when one is fatigued).
  - rnoorda 5y ago
    It helps to plan something at a certain time, even just going to dinner or on walk. Even if I'm totally engrossed in whatever new project I'm doing, I need to leave. I can keep thinking about it and stay excited, while not burning out on it. I also try to find things I can work on a little bit every day for a longer period of time. If I want to learn a foreign language or the fancy programming framework of the month, I do much better if it's used every day for 15 minutes than all at once and then forgotten.

void_mint 5y ago

> with undiagnosed ADHD If you're undiagnosed, how do you know?

encoderer 5y ago
I read the book Driven to Distraction and it changed my life.
- void_mint 5y ago
  So...you don't know, right?
  - encoderer 5y ago
    Ok bud. Whatever you say.
    - void_mint 5y ago
      You don't think it's kinda shitty to people that actually have a disorder, to just assume you have it because you read a book? You don't think it's possible that reading that book could be beneficial for those that don't have ADHD as well? Thanks, bud.
      - encoderer 5y ago
        No, i really don't. I suffer with it too, still do, it still impacts my life every day. If you haven't read it, check out that book.
        void_mint 5y ago
        Well...without getting into any sort of "you don't actually know what you're struggling with", it's probably best to just say sorry you're struggling. Hopefully you seek actual help. Best of luck.

yarinr 5y ago

> Second, internalizing that mood follows motion. I can't sit around waiting to feel right before starting/doing something. You will never feel right. It's the doing of the thing that makes you feel right. Just start shit. That's the battle. I can really resonate with that.

shannifin 5y ago

> Just start shit. That's the battle. In my experience, even after starting, some things just remain difficult. No matter how long I manage to keep momentum, that inner voice keeps saying: "This is hard. This is boring. This is time consuming. This is boring. This is uninteresting. I want to do something else." It's like rolling a stone up a hill; there is just no momentum to gain. Sometimes a perspective change can help, but that can be easier said than done.

amatecha 5y ago
Huh, yeah I can hugely relate to this. That ever-present sensation of dislike of what is happening, even while "getting something done". The feeling that it's basically the last thing I want to be doing, but there's also nothing else I want to do either :)
kiba 5y ago
My weird thought sometime says "I don't want to make progress but instead spin wheels in mud" which means I am productively procrastinating.
least 5y ago
When it's something like exercise, it's a bit easier to power through that inner voice. I can feel that and it might persist through the entire workout, but it's doable. I don't have to think about much, just have to perform physical tasks. It also does help "clear up" my brain in a sense, much like sitting in the shower does. This can create better results for other tasks that require more brainpower, though the effects don't really persist very long after I stop exercising, unfortunately. Sometimes starting on tasks that require my brain to work with me can be enough momentum to push start it into whatever it is that I need to complete. But a lot of the time it is exactly as you describe; no matter how long I work at it it's extremely hard to get through or even impossible. If my brain doesn't want to retain information or process information to create something, it won't. There are strategies and things that can help with this, but a lot of them require external resources and understanding. Having well defined tasks with good external accountability can be really helpful. Having strong incentives for completing tasks can help too. The problem is that finding people that can accommodate your needs here is pretty damn hard.

spicymaki 5y ago

> First, accepting who I am, that everybody has some mental struggles and this is mine. Agreed, I think that acceptance is a great start. The next stage I think is accommodation. Organize your life in a way that compensates for the struggle.

fnord77 5y ago

one trick I do is to start in the middle of something. Not at the beginning. So I'm actually never starting something

l33t2328 5y ago
How do you do that practically speaking?
- frankling_ 5y ago
  ft off last time and just continue from that point onwards. The essential part is to leave something over for next time, instead of finis

pomian 5y ago

Beautifully written. Thanks for your comment. It touches many of us around you. It's a message for all of us; doesn't matter - the label, what matters - the actions. It truly helps to hear that others think and have the same feelings.

benohear 5y ago

Tiny Habits by B.J. Fogg would likely help you further. The key trick is to start really small to remove the hurdle of getting going and establishing the habit, and returning to small in moments of low motivation or other impediment (eg 1 pushup will keep the momentum. 0 pushups won't)

Leparamour 5y ago
>eg 1 pushup will keep the momentum. 0 pushups won't Any idea, what would the equivalent be for this single pushup applied to coding/programming?
- donny2018 5y ago
  Single git push?
- zentiggr 5y ago
  When I feel daunted by a repetitive editing task, or intimidated by something I don't know yet... The repetitive tasks I choose a small number of steps, something I can accomplish in 5, maybe 10 minutes, and plan to stop and do something else for a bit. Read an article, stare out a window at nature, play a couple of minutes of a game. Then I do another set of changes until I start to lose focus and do a brain break. Rinse and repeat. If I feel like I don't know where to start, I need to learn something, I listen to what the anxiety is screaming and pick out one question that will fill in the next level of knowledge, no matter how silly it sounds. ("Ok, you know <html>, and <head> and <body>... what's the next level in <body>?") Every time my knowledge hoovering starts to falter, I stop and pull out just one next question... And equivalents for other circumstances, of course. Those are just my most common roadblocks.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

Just to latch onto the undiagnosed ADHD bit: Having it diagnosed formally may help, getting medicated for it might help, but... it's not a panacea. My girlfriend (diagnosed mid-30's and on slow release medication) describes it as a mood stabilizer moreso than a magic cure. Doesn't fix procrastination. I tried it once (trying the medication is part of the diagnosis), I found myself switching tasks with Intent and being really focused on one thing at a time, vs my usual mode of "multitasking".

zingar 5y ago

> Mostly after I turned 30 Me too! It does coincide with periods of medication, but this decade has been substantially better than the last. I hadn't thought about that timing until now.

iovrthoughtthis 5y ago

this heartening. thanks! did you ever get any mentorship? i’ve started to feel that i would really benefit from a mentor, probably someone with experience of executive function disorders etc.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jonathanstrange 5y ago

My concern is generally that those self-help people practically never provide reasonable evidence for their claims, nor do they provide reasonably detailed accounts of how they evaluated their methodology. In fact, the vast majority of self-help advice I've seen in my life so far was entirely based on anecdotal evidence, survivor bias, obviously inadequate generalizations ("if I can do it this way, you can do it this way, too"), and an incredible amount of aggressive immunization to critique ("if you're sceptical about anything I say, you already have the wrong mindset and will never achieve anything"). It's very off-putting to someone with a background in science.

hardlianotion 5y ago
I'm not sure I require proof as such. But I am more likely to give something a try if I think there is something that might help me. I know that nobody fits into the statistical mainstream for everything.

dalbasal 5y ago

Similar story, just older and diagnosed. I'll add: - name it. Some writers call it "resistance." You can call it Philip, Satan or whatever. It helps with recognition. - don't be afraid to be quirky. Have 3 desks. Do jumping jacks every 9 minutes. Whatever works. The overt act of battling in itself can help a lot.

onion2k 5y ago

Just start shit. I am amazing at starting. I start so many projects. My way of procrastinating is to start something new rather than work on what I should be working on. I absolutely suck at sticking with something until it's done. I am not a "completer finisher". Suggesting someone like me should "Just start shit." is literally the worst advice. :)

bittercynic 5y ago
This is a slightly different meaning of start. It doesn't mean to start something _new_ necessarily.
- endymi0n 5y ago
  This. Just start finishing! :) „Just“ as in: I‘m still trying to figure this stuff out as a lifelong procrastinator but other ingredients than momentum conservation which was also huge for me were self-acceptance, self-forgiveness and especially „Tiny Habits“ (the book) Establishing triggers in my life that put me back on track in autopilot mode were some of the largest game changers for me. The biggest one being that I now have a 10 step go-to-bed routine that sets my next-morning-self up for a great mood and start into the day. Plus, it‘s a gentle, daily reminder of caring and being gentle to myself.
pdimitar 5y ago
I think "start the thing" here refers to things you might not want to do right now -- like your job, for example. I don't think they were talking about your hobbies.