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>they can't afford to not eat meat protein, and even if there is some (probably imaginary) way for them to do that, it requires a disproportionate amount of eff

>they can't afford to not eat meat protein, and even if there is some (probably imaginary) way for them to do that, it requires a disproportionate amount of effort for them to do so. Didn't know eating beans instead of meat for protein was a disproportionate amount of effort. It's even cheaper to boot. Those people are not invalids, they just don't care about the lives of farm animals. They may say they do, but their actions prove otherwise.

jimmygrapes 5y ago
While you are not wrong about beans as a protein source, this argument always strikes me as a sort of "let the poor people eat bland mush their entire life, and if they want better food they can get rich like me and have meat from ethical sources." A large part of why factory farming exists is to drive down costs as demand rises, but you gotta keep in mind that the demand rises because eating beans and rice for every meal your entire life is miserable.
- kapp_in_life 5y ago
  I'm a vegan so they would be eating the same food I do. I never eat out and barely ever try the expensive vegan faux-meats. Adding a few spices and a can of tomatoes make beans and rice delicious. Chana masala, black bean bowls, navy bean soup, the number of dishes you can create from a base of rice and beans is innumerable and they're all relatively simple. The same could be said about unseasoned chicken meat on rice.
  - belorn 5y ago
    I have a challenge for you. Try live a month eating nothing except for seaweed as your protein source and test how easy and enjoyable it is to completely replace one protein source for an other which has completely different taste, smell, texture, and cultural place in your diet. Bonus points if you actually do not like the smell and taste of seaweed and have to work really hard with seasoning to eat it. It is vegan. It simply just a very different diet from what you are used to.
    - kapp_in_life 5y ago
      That's a hilarious false equivalency. Almost every culture has had a bean based dish, and eating meat with every meal is a relatively recent phenomenon in the last hundred years. There's a reason why I replaced meat with beans and thats due to the flexibility and variety of dishes you can cook with it, across and within cultures.
      - selimthegrim 5y ago
        Gandhi famously had problems eating pulses - he had to get his protein from goat milk. Not everyone is blessed with your digestive system.
        kapp_in_life 5y ago
        Not sure what the point of this comment is, I doubt a large majority of people eating meat or animal products have a dietary need to.
      - sokoloff 5y ago
        Nevertheless, that’s the actual change facing most people if you asked them to switch to a vegan diet today. It’s not like they’re eating food characteristic of the 1900s today.
      - belorn 5y ago
        And there we have it. It is about culture, taste, smell and texture. All environment and cultures do not have beans in the center. The easiest examples are cultures which predominantly lived on fish. In North America the three main agricultural crops are winter squash, maize (corn), and climbing beans. It should be no surprise that if you live there, cultural beans are great to you. Like fish, seaweed is primarily part of the cultural diet in coastal locations. Look at the Māori people and there is a distinct lack of beans in their diet, but seaweed is used just as bean are in north America. What you call "a hilarious false equivalency" is something I would call a lack of understand and empathy of different cultures.
- NalNezumi 5y ago
  I find it fascinating that as soon as vegan diet option is up to conversation, people just presume cuisine, cooking and recipes are thrown out of the window. "eat boiled beans with rice", is like claiming all there is to meat is to rip the package open and chew on raw meat with no seasoning is the default way meat is consumed, and make a case from that presumption The are/became vegan, not Gollum that claim everything should be eaten raw to Sam.
  - jimmygrapes 5y ago
    Your point is well taken; I recognize that there are many ways to make beans a staple protein without being a tasteless mush. I am just not sure that every person who says "just eat beans instead of meat" is considering that at the time. Both "meat" and "beans" are obviously reductive, so I can only guess there's some assumption that the reader/listener will adjust accordingly... but it still gives me strong classist vibes when someone associates low wealth/frugality with beans.
xf1cf 5y ago
I was unaware of a way to get the recommended amount of protein for a physically active person (0.5-1g/lb of bodyweight) was possible with beans. At least in a way that doesn't involve shoveling 10 cups of lentils in your mouth a day. If you're really sticking to the vegan trend you can't even use butter to make them taste better. Meat (and animal products in general) is a far more efficient source of protein. Ethics aside, nothing will change this. Pound-for-pound there is no better source of the necessary building blocks for muscle. But hey, I guess the person who shops for $1/pound manager special chicken breast because it's in budget and tasty is the problem - right? It's possible that to all but the most privileged, ethical concerns on how you're going to eat enough to live just don't really matter as much as you think they do.

jimmygrapes 5y ago

While you are not wrong about beans as a protein source, this argument always strikes me as a sort of "let the poor people eat bland mush their entire life, and if they want better food they can get rich like me and have meat from ethical sources." A large part of why factory farming exists is to drive down costs as demand rises, but you gotta keep in mind that the demand rises because eating beans and rice for every meal your entire life is miserable.

kapp_in_life 5y ago
I'm a vegan so they would be eating the same food I do. I never eat out and barely ever try the expensive vegan faux-meats. Adding a few spices and a can of tomatoes make beans and rice delicious. Chana masala, black bean bowls, navy bean soup, the number of dishes you can create from a base of rice and beans is innumerable and they're all relatively simple. The same could be said about unseasoned chicken meat on rice.
- belorn 5y ago
  I have a challenge for you. Try live a month eating nothing except for seaweed as your protein source and test how easy and enjoyable it is to completely replace one protein source for an other which has completely different taste, smell, texture, and cultural place in your diet. Bonus points if you actually do not like the smell and taste of seaweed and have to work really hard with seasoning to eat it. It is vegan. It simply just a very different diet from what you are used to.
  - kapp_in_life 5y ago
    That's a hilarious false equivalency. Almost every culture has had a bean based dish, and eating meat with every meal is a relatively recent phenomenon in the last hundred years. There's a reason why I replaced meat with beans and thats due to the flexibility and variety of dishes you can cook with it, across and within cultures.
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      Gandhi famously had problems eating pulses - he had to get his protein from goat milk. Not everyone is blessed with your digestive system.
      - kapp_in_life 5y ago
        Not sure what the point of this comment is, I doubt a large majority of people eating meat or animal products have a dietary need to.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      Nevertheless, that’s the actual change facing most people if you asked them to switch to a vegan diet today. It’s not like they’re eating food characteristic of the 1900s today.
    - belorn 5y ago
      And there we have it. It is about culture, taste, smell and texture. All environment and cultures do not have beans in the center. The easiest examples are cultures which predominantly lived on fish. In North America the three main agricultural crops are winter squash, maize (corn), and climbing beans. It should be no surprise that if you live there, cultural beans are great to you. Like fish, seaweed is primarily part of the cultural diet in coastal locations. Look at the Māori people and there is a distinct lack of beans in their diet, but seaweed is used just as bean are in north America. What you call "a hilarious false equivalency" is something I would call a lack of understand and empathy of different cultures.
NalNezumi 5y ago
I find it fascinating that as soon as vegan diet option is up to conversation, people just presume cuisine, cooking and recipes are thrown out of the window. "eat boiled beans with rice", is like claiming all there is to meat is to rip the package open and chew on raw meat with no seasoning is the default way meat is consumed, and make a case from that presumption The are/became vegan, not Gollum that claim everything should be eaten raw to Sam.
- jimmygrapes 5y ago
  Your point is well taken; I recognize that there are many ways to make beans a staple protein without being a tasteless mush. I am just not sure that every person who says "just eat beans instead of meat" is considering that at the time. Both "meat" and "beans" are obviously reductive, so I can only guess there's some assumption that the reader/listener will adjust accordingly... but it still gives me strong classist vibes when someone associates low wealth/frugality with beans.

xf1cf 5y ago

I was unaware of a way to get the recommended amount of protein for a physically active person (0.5-1g/lb of bodyweight) was possible with beans. At least in a way that doesn't involve shoveling 10 cups of lentils in your mouth a day. If you're really sticking to the vegan trend you can't even use butter to make them taste better. Meat (and animal products in general) is a far more efficient source of protein. Ethics aside, nothing will change this. Pound-for-pound there is no better source of the necessary building blocks for muscle. But hey, I guess the person who shops for $1/pound manager special chicken breast because it's in budget and tasty is the problem - right? It's possible that to all but the most privileged, ethical concerns on how you're going to eat enough to live just don't really matter as much as you think they do.