4 ms·

The notion that Chinese characters describe ideas that are formed from smaller characters that also describe ideas is a nice story, but it's not really the case

The notion that Chinese characters describe ideas that are formed from smaller characters that also describe ideas is a nice story, but it's not really the case for the majority of Chinese characters. See the Wikipedia page, Principles of formation section[0]. Many Chinese characters are constructed with two parts of smaller characters, one of which can indicate a general concept while the other provides a vague pronunciation hint. This isn't really good enough to provide you with enough information to guess at either the meaning or the pronunciation if you don't already know the word, but if you do already know the word from spoken language, then the hints might be enough to recognize the character when you read it too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters#Principles_of_formation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters#Principles_...

peterburkimsher 5y ago
If you'd like to decompose Chinese characters (e.g. if you're trying to use handwriting recognition and it's /almost/ right), try the Pingtype keyboard. Enter the character into the lower text box, and click Search. It'll decompose, and recompose characters based on the parts. I agree that the meaning is often hard to grasp from the glyphs, and can even be misleading. https://pingtype.github.io/ https://pingtype.github.io/
rahimnathwani 5y ago
Right, but there are still some nice examples, like: 木 = tree 森林 = forest And: 田 = field 力 = strength 男 = man (because he labours in the fields)
- ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
  This breaks down very quickly as you get more abstract. 人 = person "rén" 门 = gate "mén" 们 = plurality marker "mėn" 也 = also "yé" 他 = he "tā" 他们 = them "tāmėn" One can come up with a story for why person + gate is plural, but the inclusion of gate in the character for plurality is really more about the sound of gate.
  - alisonatwork 5y ago
    This is even more interesting because prior to the 1920s 他 was a gender neutral third person pronoun. And in ancient Chinese 也 was probably pronounced differently to today's yě, perhaps more like the ā of tā. A great resource for looking up the history of individual characters is Wiktionary: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BB%96 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BB%96 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%B9%9F https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%B9%9F Wiktionary is neat because it also shows you pronunciations in several different Chinese languages (Mandarin, Cantonese, Minnan, Hakka etc) and the relationship to Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese, if it's there.
    - ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
      I think 他 is still gender neural, I put down "he" out of laziness, since the feminine-only form is 她... but you make good points.
  - rahimnathwani 5y ago
    Yes totally. I wasn't contradicting GP. The pattern where part of the character indicates the sound is so common that it helps me a great deal when reading Chinese. My speaking/hearing is better than my reading. I might not know how to write a particular character but, if I can guess the sound, then that plus the surrounding context are enough for me to know what the word is.

peterburkimsher 5y ago

If you'd like to decompose Chinese characters (e.g. if you're trying to use handwriting recognition and it's /almost/ right), try the Pingtype keyboard. Enter the character into the lower text box, and click Search. It'll decompose, and recompose characters based on the parts. I agree that the meaning is often hard to grasp from the glyphs, and can even be misleading. https://pingtype.github.io/ https://pingtype.github.io/

rahimnathwani 5y ago

Right, but there are still some nice examples, like: 木 = tree 森林 = forest And: 田 = field 力 = strength 男 = man (because he labours in the fields)

ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
This breaks down very quickly as you get more abstract. 人 = person "rén" 门 = gate "mén" 们 = plurality marker "mėn" 也 = also "yé" 他 = he "tā" 他们 = them "tāmėn" One can come up with a story for why person + gate is plural, but the inclusion of gate in the character for plurality is really more about the sound of gate.
- alisonatwork 5y ago
  This is even more interesting because prior to the 1920s 他 was a gender neutral third person pronoun. And in ancient Chinese 也 was probably pronounced differently to today's yě, perhaps more like the ā of tā. A great resource for looking up the history of individual characters is Wiktionary: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BB%96 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BB%96 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%B9%9F https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%B9%9F Wiktionary is neat because it also shows you pronunciations in several different Chinese languages (Mandarin, Cantonese, Minnan, Hakka etc) and the relationship to Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese, if it's there.
  - ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
    I think 他 is still gender neural, I put down "he" out of laziness, since the feminine-only form is 她... but you make good points.
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  Yes totally. I wasn't contradicting GP. The pattern where part of the character indicates the sound is so common that it helps me a great deal when reading Chinese. My speaking/hearing is better than my reading. I might not know how to write a particular character but, if I can guess the sound, then that plus the surrounding context are enough for me to know what the word is.