6 ms·

In NYC, over a million kids of all ages walk, skateboard, bike, kick-scooter, or take the bus and subway to school every day. Little kids as young as 10 take t

by rmah 5y ago

In NYC, over a million kids of all ages walk, skateboard, bike, kick-scooter, or take the bus and subway to school every day. Little kids as young as 10 take the subway alone to/from school. Well, really they travel in packs, but still. Even in the dangerous Big Apple, the number of serious accidents or criminal incidents while going to/from school is just a handful a year. When I was young and growing up in the burbs, many kids walked or rode bikes to school. The roads were much more dangerous back then. Crime was much MUCH worse. No one batted an eye. I don't really understand some people's extreme risk aversion today.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
WalterBright 5y ago
> I don't really understand some people's extreme risk aversion today. Evolution has wired us to be constantly looking for risk. If we don't find danger, we'll invent it. As we remove the riskiest risks, the bar on what we're willing to spend and sacrifice to address the next level of risks goes higher and higher. Then there's the press which lives by sensationalizing every bad thing that happens, leading us to grossly exaggerate risk levels in our society.
- panopticon 5y ago
  > Then there's the press which lives by sensationalizing every bad thing that happens, leading us to grossly exaggerate risk levels in our society. Humans are really bad at assessing risk. Parents are more likely to be afraid of a stranger kidnapping their child when their child is far more likely to die on the car ride to school. Which is sad when you think about how suburbs are designed to make people feel safe even though their road designs tend to be extremely dangerous.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Yup. I lived in Asia for a while and toddlers ride on scooters without helmets. Shocking! Then I remember back not long ago when seat belt laws came into effect in the US. Before then? Meh. And car seats for 6 year olds?
    - AstralStorm 5y ago
      The difference here is that the these scooters either have a separate lane or are driving on pavement. There are no such provisions in most of the US.
      - refurb 5y ago
        Some parts have a separate lane, most dont. Plenty of scooters get squished under 53 ft trailers. And most scooters don’t drive on pavement in the US? Not sure what you mean.
  - raverbashing 5y ago
    Well, the roads are safe (for cars). For pedestrians, it's mostly barely adequate.
    - panopticon 5y ago
      > Well, the roads are safe (for cars). Not necessarily. Your risk of being in a fatal car accident is nearly 3x higher on suburban roads than urban roads. This is a good video on the deficiencies of suburbia road design if you're curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM
mixmastamyk 5y ago
In our neighborhood we have folks screaming in the street, repeat offenders flashing girl scouts, others sleeping on the sidewalk, and/or uber sketchy camper vans and tents parked on the way to school. I don’t believe in helicopter parenting but this is where we live.
eru 5y ago
> Little kids as young as 10 take the subway alone to/from school. That's not a little kid, that's just a kid. Americans have weird standards for kids' independence. Compare the Japanese show 'my first errand' where little kids go on their first errands: https://www.reddit.com/r/JapaneseGameShows/comments/1lvvgm/hajimete_no_otsukai_first_errand_partially_engsub/cc39boj/ https://www.reddit.com/r/JapaneseGameShows/comments/1lvvgm/h...
- ekianjo 5y ago
  You'd probably want to avoid citing Japanese TV shows as reference. They are all fake and completely scripted/heavily edited from start to finish.
  - tidenly 5y ago
    True, but younger kids walk around by themselves (mostly in groups) all around Japan. Japan is a weird case though where the cities are safer than the countryside.
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      Not saying it's not true. Just saying taking a Japanese TV Show as a proof has 0 credibility.
      - eru 5y ago
        Yes, it doesn't have credibility for what actually happens, but it can have credibility for what standards people / pop culture apply. (And that's what my original comment talked about. Also, it's just a cute show.)
  - watwut 5y ago
    In Germany school literally recomends for kids to go alone to school from first grade. First graders also went alone from school to afterschool activity. 7 years old navigating streets is not as much rarity as Americans think. And it used to be completely normal too.
rjzzleep 5y ago
When I was in Louisiana for a year I'd walk or cycle to work. Walk was about half an hour and most of the way had no sidewalks. Buying things at a target meant cycling for 40 minutes on a busy road with no bike lane or sidewalk(a street where I later learned a person had turned without watching and cracked a friends skull open). "Fun" fact: On my way home I was wearing a pink/white Nike hoodie and asked a woman for directions and she said something like "sir, please step away I have a child". I grew up in Europe, so I get what you're saying and agree with it, but for most of the US, that is actually built for cars, it's not true.
krrrh 5y ago
The author of the linked piece, Lenore Skenazy, is famous for becaming known as the worst mother in America when she wrote about letting her 9 year old ride the subway alone in her column for the New York Sun. I’ve never seen that in NY, though old Sesame Street cartoons made it seem pretty common prior to the nineties.

by rmah 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

WalterBright 5y ago

> I don't really understand some people's extreme risk aversion today. Evolution has wired us to be constantly looking for risk. If we don't find danger, we'll invent it. As we remove the riskiest risks, the bar on what we're willing to spend and sacrifice to address the next level of risks goes higher and higher. Then there's the press which lives by sensationalizing every bad thing that happens, leading us to grossly exaggerate risk levels in our society.

panopticon 5y ago
> Then there's the press which lives by sensationalizing every bad thing that happens, leading us to grossly exaggerate risk levels in our society. Humans are really bad at assessing risk. Parents are more likely to be afraid of a stranger kidnapping their child when their child is far more likely to die on the car ride to school. Which is sad when you think about how suburbs are designed to make people feel safe even though their road designs tend to be extremely dangerous.
- refurb 5y ago
  Yup. I lived in Asia for a while and toddlers ride on scooters without helmets. Shocking! Then I remember back not long ago when seat belt laws came into effect in the US. Before then? Meh. And car seats for 6 year olds?
  - AstralStorm 5y ago
    The difference here is that the these scooters either have a separate lane or are driving on pavement. There are no such provisions in most of the US.
    - refurb 5y ago
      Some parts have a separate lane, most dont. Plenty of scooters get squished under 53 ft trailers. And most scooters don’t drive on pavement in the US? Not sure what you mean.
- raverbashing 5y ago
  Well, the roads are safe (for cars). For pedestrians, it's mostly barely adequate.
  - panopticon 5y ago
    > Well, the roads are safe (for cars). Not necessarily. Your risk of being in a fatal car accident is nearly 3x higher on suburban roads than urban roads. This is a good video on the deficiencies of suburbia road design if you're curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM

mixmastamyk 5y ago

In our neighborhood we have folks screaming in the street, repeat offenders flashing girl scouts, others sleeping on the sidewalk, and/or uber sketchy camper vans and tents parked on the way to school. I don’t believe in helicopter parenting but this is where we live.

eru 5y ago

> Little kids as young as 10 take the subway alone to/from school. That's not a little kid, that's just a kid. Americans have weird standards for kids' independence. Compare the Japanese show 'my first errand' where little kids go on their first errands: https://www.reddit.com/r/JapaneseGameShows/comments/1lvvgm/hajimete_no_otsukai_first_errand_partially_engsub/cc39boj/ https://www.reddit.com/r/JapaneseGameShows/comments/1lvvgm/h...

ekianjo 5y ago
You'd probably want to avoid citing Japanese TV shows as reference. They are all fake and completely scripted/heavily edited from start to finish.
- tidenly 5y ago
  True, but younger kids walk around by themselves (mostly in groups) all around Japan. Japan is a weird case though where the cities are safer than the countryside.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    Not saying it's not true. Just saying taking a Japanese TV Show as a proof has 0 credibility.
    - eru 5y ago
      Yes, it doesn't have credibility for what actually happens, but it can have credibility for what standards people / pop culture apply. (And that's what my original comment talked about. Also, it's just a cute show.)
- watwut 5y ago
  In Germany school literally recomends for kids to go alone to school from first grade. First graders also went alone from school to afterschool activity. 7 years old navigating streets is not as much rarity as Americans think. And it used to be completely normal too.

rjzzleep 5y ago

When I was in Louisiana for a year I'd walk or cycle to work. Walk was about half an hour and most of the way had no sidewalks. Buying things at a target meant cycling for 40 minutes on a busy road with no bike lane or sidewalk(a street where I later learned a person had turned without watching and cracked a friends skull open). "Fun" fact: On my way home I was wearing a pink/white Nike hoodie and asked a woman for directions and she said something like "sir, please step away I have a child". I grew up in Europe, so I get what you're saying and agree with it, but for most of the US, that is actually built for cars, it's not true.

krrrh 5y ago

The author of the linked piece, Lenore Skenazy, is famous for becaming known as the worst mother in America when she wrote about letting her 9 year old ride the subway alone in her column for the New York Sun. I’ve never seen that in NY, though old Sesame Street cartoons made it seem pretty common prior to the nineties.