4 ms·

Well at least those microorganisms had a chance of a normal life, and you did the killing yourself. What gets me about factory farming is the complete hopelessn

Well at least those microorganisms had a chance of a normal life, and you did the killing yourself. What gets me about factory farming is the complete hopelessness of an animal born into a factory, reduced by us to being an inconvenient ingredient and nothing more, and how all of that is hidden from the consumer as much as possible, outsourced to a faceless machine. Here you go; the chicken scene from Baraka https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQhn8RW0Nk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQhn8RW0Nk

qq4 5y ago
What's a normal life? I've seen the chicken scene, and I've killed a chicken with my bare hands. I've clubbed a fish and cleaned it. I'm not afraid of where my food comes from. Chickens don't have hope, and I don't project that feeling onto them, just like I don't with microorganisms. Why do you think what you're saying is negative? If this trend tends to infinity we raise chickens instantly and vaporize them into cooked chicken in a blink of an eye.
- codeulike 5y ago
  Chickens want things. They want to walk around the scratch the ground. If you make a noise they'll run away from you - they dont want to get eaten by a fox. Your comment about microorganisms is about 'where to draw the line' and your comment about 'tend to infinity' implies you like the 'appeal to extremes' form of argument. I'm interested in what we're doing in the world now and I'm happy to suggest where a line should be drawn. I'm not worried about absolutes.
  - qq4 5y ago
    > Your comment about microorganisms is about 'where to draw the line' and your comment about 'tend to infinity' implies you like the 'appeal to extremes' form of argument. I would say that's accurate. I think extremes can bring out honest positions in an argument. Where would you suggest we draw a line? How long should a chicken live before we decide to kill it?
    - codeulike 5y ago
      We could do a lot worse than go with EU Regulation 889/2008 (i.e european definition of organic) See Article 12 for poultry. There are details about how they should be kept, density, materials (e.g. straw or turf), lighting conditions, access to perches, access to outside space. Minimum age at slaughter is 81 days. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2008:250:0001:0084:en:PDF https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:...
  - slacktide 5y ago
    I say we engineer a breed of Mike the Headless Chickens. Just enough brain stem to stay alive, not enough brain to care. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken
    - codeulike 5y ago
      Or, Lab grown meat would be a good solution. edit: Lab grown chicken exists, its just wicked expensive at the moment. Just a matter of time. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/12/2/22125518/lab-grown-chicken-meat-singapore-bioreactor-approve https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/12/2/22125518/lab-gr...
      - angrais 5y ago
        Aren't they still microorganisms at that point? Don't they have hopes and dreams like animals? Or do we not know about either and are drawing a magical line at some point?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        codeulike 5y ago
        I'm comfortable to draw a line in the sand. Something along the lines of: If its got eyes and an arsehole, lets treat it with some basic respect
    - slacktide 5y ago
      Sure, you let me know when we can grow a decent drumstick in a petri dish.
      - codeulike 5y ago
        We can do it now, just not at anywhere near competitive scale/cost yet https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/12/2/22125518/lab-grown-chicken-meat-singapore-bioreactor-approve https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/12/2/22125518/lab-gr...

qq4 5y ago

What's a normal life? I've seen the chicken scene, and I've killed a chicken with my bare hands. I've clubbed a fish and cleaned it. I'm not afraid of where my food comes from. Chickens don't have hope, and I don't project that feeling onto them, just like I don't with microorganisms. Why do you think what you're saying is negative? If this trend tends to infinity we raise chickens instantly and vaporize them into cooked chicken in a blink of an eye.

codeulike 5y ago
Chickens want things. They want to walk around the scratch the ground. If you make a noise they'll run away from you - they dont want to get eaten by a fox. Your comment about microorganisms is about 'where to draw the line' and your comment about 'tend to infinity' implies you like the 'appeal to extremes' form of argument. I'm interested in what we're doing in the world now and I'm happy to suggest where a line should be drawn. I'm not worried about absolutes.
- qq4 5y ago
  > Your comment about microorganisms is about 'where to draw the line' and your comment about 'tend to infinity' implies you like the 'appeal to extremes' form of argument. I would say that's accurate. I think extremes can bring out honest positions in an argument. Where would you suggest we draw a line? How long should a chicken live before we decide to kill it?
  - codeulike 5y ago
    We could do a lot worse than go with EU Regulation 889/2008 (i.e european definition of organic) See Article 12 for poultry. There are details about how they should be kept, density, materials (e.g. straw or turf), lighting conditions, access to perches, access to outside space. Minimum age at slaughter is 81 days. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2008:250:0001:0084:en:PDF https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:...
- slacktide 5y ago
  I say we engineer a breed of Mike the Headless Chickens. Just enough brain stem to stay alive, not enough brain to care. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken
  - codeulike 5y ago
    Or, Lab grown meat would be a good solution. edit: Lab grown chicken exists, its just wicked expensive at the moment. Just a matter of time. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/12/2/22125518/lab-grown-chicken-meat-singapore-bioreactor-approve https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/12/2/22125518/lab-gr...
    - angrais 5y ago
      Aren't they still microorganisms at that point? Don't they have hopes and dreams like animals? Or do we not know about either and are drawing a magical line at some point?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - codeulike 5y ago
        I'm comfortable to draw a line in the sand. Something along the lines of: If its got eyes and an arsehole, lets treat it with some basic respect
  - slacktide 5y ago
    Sure, you let me know when we can grow a decent drumstick in a petri dish.
    - codeulike 5y ago
      We can do it now, just not at anywhere near competitive scale/cost yet https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/12/2/22125518/lab-grown-chicken-meat-singapore-bioreactor-approve https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/12/2/22125518/lab-gr...