8 ms·

Even the most sustainable meat is worse for the environment than plant-based protein https://www.fastcompany.com/90461008/this-graph-will-show-you-the-carbon-f

Even the most sustainable meat is worse for the environment than plant-based protein https://www.fastcompany.com/90461008/this-graph-will-show-you-the-carbon-footprint-of-your-protein https://www.fastcompany.com/90461008/this-graph-will-show-yo...

moistbar 5y ago
Do plant-based proteins have the B vitamins that most of the world is deficient in?
- kapp_in_life 5y ago
  This is silly. The solution to a vitamin deficiency is vitamins. Clearly they're deficient while eating meat too, so that doesn't seem like a strong argument against plant based proteins.
  - moistbar 5y ago
    > In all, 52% of vegans, 7% of vegetarians and one omnivore were classified as vitamin B12 deficient (defined as serum vitamin B12 < 118 pmol/l). [0] [0] http://www.epic-oxford.org/publications/1554/serum-concentrations-of-folate-and-votamin-b12-by-diet-group http://www.epic-oxford.org/publications/1554/serum-concentra... No, they are not "clearly deficient while eating meat" as you claim. There's a documented B12 deficiency in vegans and vegetarians that isn't present in meat eaters.
    - kapp_in_life 5y ago
      Cherry picking one vitamin deficiency in vegans. Omnivores are deficient in other vitamins. The answer is supplementing, not changing foods you eat. > Omnivores had the lowest intake of Mg, vitamin C, vitamin E, niacin and folic acid. Vegans reported low intakes of Ca and a marginal consumption of the vitamins D and B12. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26502280/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26502280/
      - moistbar 5y ago
        I wasn't talking about those vitamins. I was talking about B12, which we largely get from meat...meat being the original topic.
- jfengel 5y ago
  Ummm... yes. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/impossible-burger#what-it-is https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/impossible-burger#what-... The Impossible Burger is supplemented with a ton of B vitamins (for thiamine, several weeks' supply). Most vegans eat lots of other B containing foods, including yeast (which is after all how plant-eating animals manufacture B vitamins in the first place, by fermentation during digestion). But for those who want to get it along with their protein source, the plant-based meat-simulacra also contain it.
  - trainsplanes 5y ago
    Vitamin B12 is produced only by bacteria. Not yeast. It’s incredibly difficult to get sufficient quantities of B12 outside of meat products or manufactured supplements.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - sweetheart 5y ago
      The only reason most meats have B12 is because the animals are supplemented with it as well, because modern farming has sterilized to the point where even these animals don't get enough naturally. So either way your B12 is coming from supplements. It's either in a pill already, or the flesh of animal who didn't want to die, and they simply took the pill on your behalf.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - jfengel 5y ago
      That's correct. I conflated. Most nutritional yeast is supplemented with B12. It's a good source of protein and other minerals. Many vegetarians also eat fermented pickles that contain B12 naturally, though you do have to eat rather a lot to get sufficient B12. By contrast, most non-vegetarians are very deficient in fiber, and nobody ever seems to bother about it.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
Yes, except that's not practical. I don't want to give up meat but I'll give up beef and pork.
- estaseuropano 5y ago
  That does not seem to be a matter of 'practical' but rather a matter of eating preferences. Honestly our food habits are just out of whack. If you go to any Asian or African country (outside the touristic areas) you'll find how many classical/common dishes taste great without meat. From Chinese noodle soups to Thai curries to Ethiopian bean dishes or Indian anything, you miss neither nutrients nor flavour without meat. I would argue the vegetarian movement has made a huge impact in reawakening many 'western' recipes which disappeared when near became cheap. From beetroot to Brussels sprouts to pickles to lentil stews and grilled vegetables - lots of things are back on the plate. All that long said for a short message: yes it can be very practical if we collectively (or individually) want it to be.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
    I already cut meat out of my lunch and I don't eat a breakfast during the week. No thanks. It's not practical to demand the entire planet become vegan.
    - snet0 5y ago
      That is not the argument, though. I firmly believe that an overwhelming majority of people who read HN would be able to practically remove meat from their diet. It's not about everyone, it's about individuals, and individuals should strive to do their best given their circumstances.
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
        I don't like the dogmatic absolutism as well. All meat? I can't eat sustainably farmed, smoked mussels? And if we are talking vegan I cannot eat sustainable honey or cheese? It's asinine and arbitrary. The vegan/vegetarian cause would create more pragmatic change if it were more welcoming and respected those who are willing to cut back.

moistbar 5y ago

Do plant-based proteins have the B vitamins that most of the world is deficient in?

kapp_in_life 5y ago
This is silly. The solution to a vitamin deficiency is vitamins. Clearly they're deficient while eating meat too, so that doesn't seem like a strong argument against plant based proteins.
- moistbar 5y ago
  > In all, 52% of vegans, 7% of vegetarians and one omnivore were classified as vitamin B12 deficient (defined as serum vitamin B12 < 118 pmol/l). [0] [0] http://www.epic-oxford.org/publications/1554/serum-concentrations-of-folate-and-votamin-b12-by-diet-group http://www.epic-oxford.org/publications/1554/serum-concentra... No, they are not "clearly deficient while eating meat" as you claim. There's a documented B12 deficiency in vegans and vegetarians that isn't present in meat eaters.
  - kapp_in_life 5y ago
    Cherry picking one vitamin deficiency in vegans. Omnivores are deficient in other vitamins. The answer is supplementing, not changing foods you eat. > Omnivores had the lowest intake of Mg, vitamin C, vitamin E, niacin and folic acid. Vegans reported low intakes of Ca and a marginal consumption of the vitamins D and B12. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26502280/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26502280/
    - moistbar 5y ago
      I wasn't talking about those vitamins. I was talking about B12, which we largely get from meat...meat being the original topic.
jfengel 5y ago
Ummm... yes. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/impossible-burger#what-it-is https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/impossible-burger#what-... The Impossible Burger is supplemented with a ton of B vitamins (for thiamine, several weeks' supply). Most vegans eat lots of other B containing foods, including yeast (which is after all how plant-eating animals manufacture B vitamins in the first place, by fermentation during digestion). But for those who want to get it along with their protein source, the plant-based meat-simulacra also contain it.
- trainsplanes 5y ago
  Vitamin B12 is produced only by bacteria. Not yeast. It’s incredibly difficult to get sufficient quantities of B12 outside of meat products or manufactured supplements.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - sweetheart 5y ago
    The only reason most meats have B12 is because the animals are supplemented with it as well, because modern farming has sterilized to the point where even these animals don't get enough naturally. So either way your B12 is coming from supplements. It's either in a pill already, or the flesh of animal who didn't want to die, and they simply took the pill on your behalf.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - jfengel 5y ago
    That's correct. I conflated. Most nutritional yeast is supplemented with B12. It's a good source of protein and other minerals. Many vegetarians also eat fermented pickles that contain B12 naturally, though you do have to eat rather a lot to get sufficient B12. By contrast, most non-vegetarians are very deficient in fiber, and nobody ever seems to bother about it.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

Yes, except that's not practical. I don't want to give up meat but I'll give up beef and pork.

estaseuropano 5y ago
That does not seem to be a matter of 'practical' but rather a matter of eating preferences. Honestly our food habits are just out of whack. If you go to any Asian or African country (outside the touristic areas) you'll find how many classical/common dishes taste great without meat. From Chinese noodle soups to Thai curries to Ethiopian bean dishes or Indian anything, you miss neither nutrients nor flavour without meat. I would argue the vegetarian movement has made a huge impact in reawakening many 'western' recipes which disappeared when near became cheap. From beetroot to Brussels sprouts to pickles to lentil stews and grilled vegetables - lots of things are back on the plate. All that long said for a short message: yes it can be very practical if we collectively (or individually) want it to be.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  I already cut meat out of my lunch and I don't eat a breakfast during the week. No thanks. It's not practical to demand the entire planet become vegan.
  - snet0 5y ago
    That is not the argument, though. I firmly believe that an overwhelming majority of people who read HN would be able to practically remove meat from their diet. It's not about everyone, it's about individuals, and individuals should strive to do their best given their circumstances.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
      I don't like the dogmatic absolutism as well. All meat? I can't eat sustainably farmed, smoked mussels? And if we are talking vegan I cannot eat sustainable honey or cheese? It's asinine and arbitrary. The vegan/vegetarian cause would create more pragmatic change if it were more welcoming and respected those who are willing to cut back.