4 ms·

In case OP shows up, we believe you and support you! Speaking out like this is hard but it's the best way to help the community you love.

hbn 5y ago
> we believe you and support you! Not that I think he's lying, but... why? I don't know who any of these people are but I don't like the idea of hearing one person's account and automatically assuming it's true. At least not in the case of assertions that are potentially career-ruining.
- velcrovan 5y ago
  > I don't know who any of these people are That's the key point right there. The target audience is the Racket community, who do know who these people are. No one is out to ruin Felleisen's career, he will be fine no matter what. But the Racket community has an interest in his effect on that community. We are much worse off without Butterick's involvement.
  - ImprobableTruth 5y ago
    >No one is out to ruin Felleisen's career, he will be fine no matter what I mean, why do you assume that? I don't know the Racket community, but if he is "the self-styled leader of the Racket project" being potentially forced to step down/ousted seems like it would very much impact him personally.
    - velcrovan 5y ago
      You're apparently walking into this with zero knowledge, so any of this would be assumption for you until you learned more. I am assuming nothing. I'm telling you the facts as I am aware of them. Feel free to do your own verification, for sure. Felleisen is very secure in an academic career and his status on the Rackt development team does not affect his position or his paycheck in the slightest. You can google him and look up his wikipedia entry.
      - ImprobableTruth 5y ago
        No, I'm not walking into this with zero knowledge - I'm familiar with some of his (old) papers and know that he's been working on Racket/PLT Scheme for quite a long time, though my knowledge of Racket is mostly limited to some gradual typing/DSL papers and I'm not aware of what the dynamics of the Racket organization or community are. And yes, he won't lose his job or end up destitute, but I find the insinuation that this means "he will be fine no matter" quite strange. If it prevents him from continuing his current research work (I don't know whether that's the case), I'd very much count that as impacting him personally.
        yawaramin 5y ago
        > If it prevents him from continuing his current research work (I don't know whether that's the case) So zero knowledge then.
    - plorkyeran 5y ago
      He is a tenured professor, and his work on Racket is only tangentially related to what he's actually paid for. His research work doesn't rely on him leading the project or even being involved in it. He would presumably be very unhappy about being forced out of a leadership position, but that's about it.
      - ImprobableTruth 5y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean by 'his work on Racket being only tangentially related to what's he actually paid for", as far as I know all his research for like the past two decades has been on Racket, though I'm not familiar with what he's been doing exactly. Now, it could be that his involvement with the project isn't necessary for his research to continue without issue, but I at least don't think that's a given and would depend on what research he's been doing specifically.
    - ajarmst 5y ago
      Felleisen is an ACM Fellow with a senior tenured position at Rice. American, white, middle-aged. Doesn't have a presence in social media. He'll be fine.
- leafmeal 5y ago
  Am I being naive? I think it would be pretty absurd to lie about this. I don't think anybody want this to be career ruining. It is really hard to check assholes with authority. The least we can do is take this person's complaint seriously.

hbn 5y ago

> we believe you and support you! Not that I think he's lying, but... why? I don't know who any of these people are but I don't like the idea of hearing one person's account and automatically assuming it's true. At least not in the case of assertions that are potentially career-ruining.

velcrovan 5y ago
> I don't know who any of these people are That's the key point right there. The target audience is the Racket community, who do know who these people are. No one is out to ruin Felleisen's career, he will be fine no matter what. But the Racket community has an interest in his effect on that community. We are much worse off without Butterick's involvement.
- ImprobableTruth 5y ago
  >No one is out to ruin Felleisen's career, he will be fine no matter what I mean, why do you assume that? I don't know the Racket community, but if he is "the self-styled leader of the Racket project" being potentially forced to step down/ousted seems like it would very much impact him personally.
  - velcrovan 5y ago
    You're apparently walking into this with zero knowledge, so any of this would be assumption for you until you learned more. I am assuming nothing. I'm telling you the facts as I am aware of them. Feel free to do your own verification, for sure. Felleisen is very secure in an academic career and his status on the Rackt development team does not affect his position or his paycheck in the slightest. You can google him and look up his wikipedia entry.
    - ImprobableTruth 5y ago
      No, I'm not walking into this with zero knowledge - I'm familiar with some of his (old) papers and know that he's been working on Racket/PLT Scheme for quite a long time, though my knowledge of Racket is mostly limited to some gradual typing/DSL papers and I'm not aware of what the dynamics of the Racket organization or community are. And yes, he won't lose his job or end up destitute, but I find the insinuation that this means "he will be fine no matter" quite strange. If it prevents him from continuing his current research work (I don't know whether that's the case), I'd very much count that as impacting him personally.
      - yawaramin 5y ago
        > If it prevents him from continuing his current research work (I don't know whether that's the case) So zero knowledge then.
  - plorkyeran 5y ago
    He is a tenured professor, and his work on Racket is only tangentially related to what he's actually paid for. His research work doesn't rely on him leading the project or even being involved in it. He would presumably be very unhappy about being forced out of a leadership position, but that's about it.
    - ImprobableTruth 5y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean by 'his work on Racket being only tangentially related to what's he actually paid for", as far as I know all his research for like the past two decades has been on Racket, though I'm not familiar with what he's been doing exactly. Now, it could be that his involvement with the project isn't necessary for his research to continue without issue, but I at least don't think that's a given and would depend on what research he's been doing specifically.
  - ajarmst 5y ago
    Felleisen is an ACM Fellow with a senior tenured position at Rice. American, white, middle-aged. Doesn't have a presence in social media. He'll be fine.
leafmeal 5y ago
Am I being naive? I think it would be pretty absurd to lie about this. I don't think anybody want this to be career ruining. It is really hard to check assholes with authority. The least we can do is take this person's complaint seriously.