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The idea that Scandinavian countries have lower class mobility than the U.S. goes against almost every study and observation on the issue. Here is the World Eco

by Kranar 5y ago

The idea that Scandinavian countries have lower class mobility than the U.S. goes against almost every study and observation on the issue. Here is the World Economic Forum's findings [1], which places Scandinavian countries at the top across a host of factors including income, education, and health. I'd also be careful about placing much emphasis on things like culture, not because countries are homogeneous culturally, but because often when people talk about how culture in Europe is so drastically different than culture in the U.S., they are referring to stereotypes that are mostly at the margins and don't often have much of an impact on socioeconomic factors. As humans, we have a tendency to focus on superficial differences and exaggerate those differences to explain away phenomenon. I highly doubt you'd find a credible study indicating that Scandinavians will forgo attaining a higher income and a better quality of life just so they can fit into a mold and satisfy some kind of cultural tendency, but if you do have any such studies for review I'd be very happy to see them. [1] http://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global_Social_Mobility_Report.pdf http://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global_Social_Mobility_Report.p...

busterarm 5y ago
This report is almost entirely studying the ability of people to move up from poor to middle class. That's one kind of mobility sure and those countries focus social programs heavily on evening out everyone's income. That's exactly what I was saying. What I'm talking about wrt low mobility is how often people in those countries go from poor or average to wealthy or from wealthy to average or to poor. Generally wealthy people stay wealthy there and average income people stay average income. That study's data supports this -- it's very easy to obtain a mean income if you had less; after that movement is very low. This should be obvious but if you have very low income inequality then there's very little potential to be either rich or poor. This isn't even a criticism! It's great that people can generally earn a living there. I'm just stating what everyone seems to know there -- that it's very hard to become wealthy and generally looked down upon as a goal. Scandinavians don't like to boast. Startup costs for new businesses are high and you can't just go buying up tons of real estate to rent out to people because land ownership is heavily regulated. I can't even buy an apartment as a non-resident foreigner (in Denmark) without a very difficult to obtain government approval. Danish monetary policy is having its banks charge customers penalty rates for having a meager cash savings. In the US we have much greater swings in fortune, good and bad. Heck, I've been both a millionaire and homeless within my lifetime. That kind of outcome is absurdly unlikely in Scandinavian countries.

by Kranar 5y ago

busterarm 5y ago

This report is almost entirely studying the ability of people to move up from poor to middle class. That's one kind of mobility sure and those countries focus social programs heavily on evening out everyone's income. That's exactly what I was saying. What I'm talking about wrt low mobility is how often people in those countries go from poor or average to wealthy or from wealthy to average or to poor. Generally wealthy people stay wealthy there and average income people stay average income. That study's data supports this -- it's very easy to obtain a mean income if you had less; after that movement is very low. This should be obvious but if you have very low income inequality then there's very little potential to be either rich or poor. This isn't even a criticism! It's great that people can generally earn a living there. I'm just stating what everyone seems to know there -- that it's very hard to become wealthy and generally looked down upon as a goal. Scandinavians don't like to boast. Startup costs for new businesses are high and you can't just go buying up tons of real estate to rent out to people because land ownership is heavily regulated. I can't even buy an apartment as a non-resident foreigner (in Denmark) without a very difficult to obtain government approval. Danish monetary policy is having its banks charge customers penalty rates for having a meager cash savings. In the US we have much greater swings in fortune, good and bad. Heck, I've been both a millionaire and homeless within my lifetime. That kind of outcome is absurdly unlikely in Scandinavian countries.