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How is theology not knowledge about the world? Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential

How is theology not knowledge about the world? Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning about how to lead a positive individual life within a society that enables said individuals. That's much more important to be informed about than botany. Having said that, skill-oriented communities would be great too - they primarily exist online right now because participants are often spread out, or otherwise take the form of friend groups based on shared interest.

heresie-dabord 5y ago
> How is theology not knowledge about the world? Gather all the theologies into a room and get them to agree on the evidence for their points of dogma if you can. There's a first test of knowledge. Beyond pragmatic social strategy, these ancient tribal writings are a vestige of ignorant mummery. "My Sky Avenger versus your Sky Avenger," as George Carlin might have said. > Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning [...] Sure, humans (and likely other extinct hominins) have speculated about their life and the world. It is not given that all their conclusions favoured a Sky Avenger. Some notable ancient Greeks were atheists. So, no, "religion" does not contain thousands of years of experiential learning. Speculation only becomes learning when it can be tested. Arrant nonsense is not learning, even if bound in leather and printed in gold on vellum. Theology is knowledge only in the same sense that astrology, Scientology, or QAnon claims are knowledge. It is knowledge about a system of false and/or untestable assertions, constituting in all a set of conventions to which a power structure may ally itself. Old religions become mythology when there is no longer a power structure to promote them. People make pragmatic choices every day to live in the real world. Purveyors of religion just build fantasies atop these pragmatic choices.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  This little screed just betrays a lack of knowledge about religion. The idea of gods as being imaginary beings that people believe to be, Idk, invisible or something rather than anthropomorphised representations of the laws of nature is a pretty low effort atheist trope. I used to believe this stuff when I was a know-it-all 15 year old too and used to joke about the flying spaghetti monster, but I've since attempted to actually understand some of these ideas rather than dismissing religion as crazy imaginings by those stupid people from over 70 years ago and all of history before that, compared to us modern enlightened atheists. I was raised atheist and have only come to understand some Christian ideas via learning some philosophy and 20th and 21st century scientific theory.
  - heresie-dabord 5y ago
    Good Sir, in my best and kindest humour I must say that neither of us is 15 years old ^_^ and I am aware that a literary interpretation of 4000 [1] years of mythology is not just possible, it has been offered in notable works by Joseph Campbell and JG Fraser. Although literary criticism far from a rigorous field of thought, I am happy to celebrate your interest, especially if you have devoted most of your adult life to it. What ignorance, cruelty, strife, and murder have been committed in the cause of other interpretations of 4000 [1] years of mythology is to my mind the greater concern. But we can of course agree to disagree on the InterWobbles. Cheers! [1] An arbitrary number to include various artefacts.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      I actually haven't devoted any of my adult life to it - I was raised without religion and grew up not understanding the nature of religion and thinking science was somehow its successor as JG Fraser believed. But this belief was born of ignorance, not knowledge. My primary studies in adulthood have been systems theory and some dabbling in moral philosophy, rather than studying the Bible. I suspect that wars between sects is not a simple matter of killing the non-believer, but an excuse for the real reason wars have always been fought: expansionism and colonialism in order to control scarce resources.
      - heresie-dabord 5y ago
        From your kind reply, Sir, I am led to suspect that we agree on much more than we would at first assume. Bread, circuses, and other mummery are distractions useful to the powerful as they concoct and enact their schemes. And, of course, the winners of a conflict write the historical account and the myths. The losers lose their voice and often their lives. There are some relatively lucid works in literature. But literature serves artistic purposes. There are honest and more rigorous works in economics, history, and anthropology that lead to a stark conclusion. [0] Civilisation is a hard system to build. ^_^ [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_homini_lupus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_homini_lupus

heresie-dabord 5y ago

> How is theology not knowledge about the world? Gather all the theologies into a room and get them to agree on the evidence for their points of dogma if you can. There's a first test of knowledge. Beyond pragmatic social strategy, these ancient tribal writings are a vestige of ignorant mummery. "My Sky Avenger versus your Sky Avenger," as George Carlin might have said. > Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning [...] Sure, humans (and likely other extinct hominins) have speculated about their life and the world. It is not given that all their conclusions favoured a Sky Avenger. Some notable ancient Greeks were atheists. So, no, "religion" does not contain thousands of years of experiential learning. Speculation only becomes learning when it can be tested. Arrant nonsense is not learning, even if bound in leather and printed in gold on vellum. Theology is knowledge only in the same sense that astrology, Scientology, or QAnon claims are knowledge. It is knowledge about a system of false and/or untestable assertions, constituting in all a set of conventions to which a power structure may ally itself. Old religions become mythology when there is no longer a power structure to promote them. People make pragmatic choices every day to live in the real world. Purveyors of religion just build fantasies atop these pragmatic choices.

beaconstudios 5y ago
This little screed just betrays a lack of knowledge about religion. The idea of gods as being imaginary beings that people believe to be, Idk, invisible or something rather than anthropomorphised representations of the laws of nature is a pretty low effort atheist trope. I used to believe this stuff when I was a know-it-all 15 year old too and used to joke about the flying spaghetti monster, but I've since attempted to actually understand some of these ideas rather than dismissing religion as crazy imaginings by those stupid people from over 70 years ago and all of history before that, compared to us modern enlightened atheists. I was raised atheist and have only come to understand some Christian ideas via learning some philosophy and 20th and 21st century scientific theory.
- heresie-dabord 5y ago
  Good Sir, in my best and kindest humour I must say that neither of us is 15 years old ^_^ and I am aware that a literary interpretation of 4000 [1] years of mythology is not just possible, it has been offered in notable works by Joseph Campbell and JG Fraser. Although literary criticism far from a rigorous field of thought, I am happy to celebrate your interest, especially if you have devoted most of your adult life to it. What ignorance, cruelty, strife, and murder have been committed in the cause of other interpretations of 4000 [1] years of mythology is to my mind the greater concern. But we can of course agree to disagree on the InterWobbles. Cheers! [1] An arbitrary number to include various artefacts.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    I actually haven't devoted any of my adult life to it - I was raised without religion and grew up not understanding the nature of religion and thinking science was somehow its successor as JG Fraser believed. But this belief was born of ignorance, not knowledge. My primary studies in adulthood have been systems theory and some dabbling in moral philosophy, rather than studying the Bible. I suspect that wars between sects is not a simple matter of killing the non-believer, but an excuse for the real reason wars have always been fought: expansionism and colonialism in order to control scarce resources.
    - heresie-dabord 5y ago
      From your kind reply, Sir, I am led to suspect that we agree on much more than we would at first assume. Bread, circuses, and other mummery are distractions useful to the powerful as they concoct and enact their schemes. And, of course, the winners of a conflict write the historical account and the myths. The losers lose their voice and often their lives. There are some relatively lucid works in literature. But literature serves artistic purposes. There are honest and more rigorous works in economics, history, and anthropology that lead to a stark conclusion. [0] Civilisation is a hard system to build. ^_^ [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_homini_lupus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_homini_lupus