5 ms·

This is just dumb. A person spends 15% of their life using educational facilities. It is possible they will need parking and attend places of worship for clos

by evgen 5y ago

This is just dumb. A person spends 15% of their life using educational facilities. It is possible they will need parking and attend places of worship for close to 80% of their lives. The latter are also not amenable to geographic consolidation; you can't build one parking lot for entire medium sized city, but you might be able to only have one secondary school.

whatshisface 5y ago
I'm not sure how dumb it is if you really think about it. Why is theology the only field with widespread public lecture halls? Why can't I go to botany church every Saturday? If there was anywhere near the public interest in knowledge about the world as there is in knowledge about the world-to-come, you could go to church on Saturday to hear about botany. You wouldn't even have to cancel anything on Sunday.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  How is theology not knowledge about the world? Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning about how to lead a positive individual life within a society that enables said individuals. That's much more important to be informed about than botany. Having said that, skill-oriented communities would be great too - they primarily exist online right now because participants are often spread out, or otherwise take the form of friend groups based on shared interest.
  - heresie-dabord 5y ago
    > How is theology not knowledge about the world? Gather all the theologies into a room and get them to agree on the evidence for their points of dogma if you can. There's a first test of knowledge. Beyond pragmatic social strategy, these ancient tribal writings are a vestige of ignorant mummery. "My Sky Avenger versus your Sky Avenger," as George Carlin might have said. > Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning [...] Sure, humans (and likely other extinct hominins) have speculated about their life and the world. It is not given that all their conclusions favoured a Sky Avenger. Some notable ancient Greeks were atheists. So, no, "religion" does not contain thousands of years of experiential learning. Speculation only becomes learning when it can be tested. Arrant nonsense is not learning, even if bound in leather and printed in gold on vellum. Theology is knowledge only in the same sense that astrology, Scientology, or QAnon claims are knowledge. It is knowledge about a system of false and/or untestable assertions, constituting in all a set of conventions to which a power structure may ally itself. Old religions become mythology when there is no longer a power structure to promote them. People make pragmatic choices every day to live in the real world. Purveyors of religion just build fantasies atop these pragmatic choices.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      This little screed just betrays a lack of knowledge about religion. The idea of gods as being imaginary beings that people believe to be, Idk, invisible or something rather than anthropomorphised representations of the laws of nature is a pretty low effort atheist trope. I used to believe this stuff when I was a know-it-all 15 year old too and used to joke about the flying spaghetti monster, but I've since attempted to actually understand some of these ideas rather than dismissing religion as crazy imaginings by those stupid people from over 70 years ago and all of history before that, compared to us modern enlightened atheists. I was raised atheist and have only come to understand some Christian ideas via learning some philosophy and 20th and 21st century scientific theory.
      - heresie-dabord 5y ago
        Good Sir, in my best and kindest humour I must say that neither of us is 15 years old ^_^ and I am aware that a literary interpretation of 4000 [1] years of mythology is not just possible, it has been offered in notable works by Joseph Campbell and JG Fraser. Although literary criticism far from a rigorous field of thought, I am happy to celebrate your interest, especially if you have devoted most of your adult life to it. What ignorance, cruelty, strife, and murder have been committed in the cause of other interpretations of 4000 [1] years of mythology is to my mind the greater concern. But we can of course agree to disagree on the InterWobbles. Cheers! [1] An arbitrary number to include various artefacts.
        beaconstudios 5y ago
        I actually haven't devoted any of my adult life to it - I was raised without religion and grew up not understanding the nature of religion and thinking science was somehow its successor as JG Fraser believed. But this belief was born of ignorance, not knowledge. My primary studies in adulthood have been systems theory and some dabbling in moral philosophy, rather than studying the Bible. I suspect that wars between sects is not a simple matter of killing the non-believer, but an excuse for the real reason wars have always been fought: expansionism and colonialism in order to control scarce resources.
Iv 5y ago
Parkings make sense, I was merely pointing out that something as optional as places of worship are as prevalent as parkings. You don't "need" to attend places of worship 80% of your life. A place of worship is usually a place where you are told to consider respectable several of the tools for indoctrination: - Trust in a authority - Faith over knowledge - Revelation as a valid source of information

by evgen 5y ago

whatshisface 5y ago

I'm not sure how dumb it is if you really think about it. Why is theology the only field with widespread public lecture halls? Why can't I go to botany church every Saturday? If there was anywhere near the public interest in knowledge about the world as there is in knowledge about the world-to-come, you could go to church on Saturday to hear about botany. You wouldn't even have to cancel anything on Sunday.

beaconstudios 5y ago
How is theology not knowledge about the world? Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning about how to lead a positive individual life within a society that enables said individuals. That's much more important to be informed about than botany. Having said that, skill-oriented communities would be great too - they primarily exist online right now because participants are often spread out, or otherwise take the form of friend groups based on shared interest.
- heresie-dabord 5y ago
  > How is theology not knowledge about the world? Gather all the theologies into a room and get them to agree on the evidence for their points of dogma if you can. There's a first test of knowledge. Beyond pragmatic social strategy, these ancient tribal writings are a vestige of ignorant mummery. "My Sky Avenger versus your Sky Avenger," as George Carlin might have said. > Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning [...] Sure, humans (and likely other extinct hominins) have speculated about their life and the world. It is not given that all their conclusions favoured a Sky Avenger. Some notable ancient Greeks were atheists. So, no, "religion" does not contain thousands of years of experiential learning. Speculation only becomes learning when it can be tested. Arrant nonsense is not learning, even if bound in leather and printed in gold on vellum. Theology is knowledge only in the same sense that astrology, Scientology, or QAnon claims are knowledge. It is knowledge about a system of false and/or untestable assertions, constituting in all a set of conventions to which a power structure may ally itself. Old religions become mythology when there is no longer a power structure to promote them. People make pragmatic choices every day to live in the real world. Purveyors of religion just build fantasies atop these pragmatic choices.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    This little screed just betrays a lack of knowledge about religion. The idea of gods as being imaginary beings that people believe to be, Idk, invisible or something rather than anthropomorphised representations of the laws of nature is a pretty low effort atheist trope. I used to believe this stuff when I was a know-it-all 15 year old too and used to joke about the flying spaghetti monster, but I've since attempted to actually understand some of these ideas rather than dismissing religion as crazy imaginings by those stupid people from over 70 years ago and all of history before that, compared to us modern enlightened atheists. I was raised atheist and have only come to understand some Christian ideas via learning some philosophy and 20th and 21st century scientific theory.
    - heresie-dabord 5y ago
      Good Sir, in my best and kindest humour I must say that neither of us is 15 years old ^_^ and I am aware that a literary interpretation of 4000 [1] years of mythology is not just possible, it has been offered in notable works by Joseph Campbell and JG Fraser. Although literary criticism far from a rigorous field of thought, I am happy to celebrate your interest, especially if you have devoted most of your adult life to it. What ignorance, cruelty, strife, and murder have been committed in the cause of other interpretations of 4000 [1] years of mythology is to my mind the greater concern. But we can of course agree to disagree on the InterWobbles. Cheers! [1] An arbitrary number to include various artefacts.
      - beaconstudios 5y ago
        I actually haven't devoted any of my adult life to it - I was raised without religion and grew up not understanding the nature of religion and thinking science was somehow its successor as JG Fraser believed. But this belief was born of ignorance, not knowledge. My primary studies in adulthood have been systems theory and some dabbling in moral philosophy, rather than studying the Bible. I suspect that wars between sects is not a simple matter of killing the non-believer, but an excuse for the real reason wars have always been fought: expansionism and colonialism in order to control scarce resources.

Iv 5y ago

Parkings make sense, I was merely pointing out that something as optional as places of worship are as prevalent as parkings. You don't "need" to attend places of worship 80% of your life. A place of worship is usually a place where you are told to consider respectable several of the tools for indoctrination: - Trust in a authority - Faith over knowledge - Revelation as a valid source of information