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Globalization destroyed America’s manufacturing base. At some point politicians decided we had plenty of manufacturing to spare, so we should give it to other c

Globalization destroyed America’s manufacturing base. At some point politicians decided we had plenty of manufacturing to spare, so we should give it to other countries who need it more. Now, we are paying for it.

knownjorbist 5y ago
Manufacturing is not some magical thing we should be exclusively trying to court.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  Unless your collecting food stamps in the rust belt?
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    The overall economic cost of trying to maintain generation after generation doing the same thing with the same results far outweighs the people experiencing some pain of having to re-train, go to school or move elsewhere. If anything that's where the government should be trying to help, not trying to prop up industries with our tax dollars.
    - systemvoltage 5y ago
      I think it’s also about resilience of global reliance and disruptions. “Someone’s gotta make stuff” as Elon puts it. Manufacturing of stupid trivial things like buttons and pins is still important to keep high volume manufacturing knowledge and knowhow.
      - knownjorbist 5y ago
        With select exceptions(defense, mainly), disruptions of the kind you're describing are best handled with multilateralism.
        systemvoltage 5y ago
        Definitely defense, if you study history - how bacon grease was collected from homes to make lubricant for cartridges during WWII; making pins and buttons for clothes was turned into component manufacturing for airplanes almost overnight. Within a few days, people worked to convert equipment, draft new mechanisms, turn them at the machine shop, fixer-upper some machines - converted the entire enterprise into making shaft pins and washers. There were countless examples of how quickly manufacturing of A was converted to manufacturing of B. Ken Burns documentary goes much deeper into this and I find it totally fascinating. Chinese populace has an insane level of "jerry-rigging" capability because of how they bring costs down. This is a huge advantage in war manufacturing theater. This is now questionable as Americans (and Europeans alike) are constantly in consumption mode.
  - underseacables 5y ago
    I think there is a serious disconnect between those who grew up with manufacturing, will appreciate it perhaps, and those that have no clue. It’s clear from some of these comments that there are some people that grew up in non-manufacturing household, non-manufacturing cities, and I think for them manufacturing is like McDonald’s. The local McDonald’s closed, oh well. I’m sure they’ll find another job. They can learn to code.
    - knownjorbist 5y ago
      The ancestors of the people you're describing moved & learned new skills in that scenario. If markets are moving away from that particular niche, the government should not be artificially preserving the conditions under which generations can do the same thing and expect the same result. What happened to personal responsibility?
azinman2 5y ago
I wouldn’t blame politicians. It was very in vogue for businesses to outsource in the last 20 years, and if you didn’t do it, your competition would. It was a race to the bottom that the stock market reacted to, adding to the pressures. That’s the real driver.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
Wealthy private manufacturers lobbied politicians to make their widget in the cheapest country. I just wanted to make it clear it was greedy wealthy manufacturers whom abandoned their country in order to make a bigger wad.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
That's disingenuous. What happened is that economists created models that suggested open trade would be beneficial to everyone even if it caused temporary disruption and politicians implemented their ideas, likely with not insignificant prodding from businesses looking to cut costs. Whether or not those models are accurate is matter for debate.

knownjorbist 5y ago

Manufacturing is not some magical thing we should be exclusively trying to court.

hellbannedguy 5y ago
Unless your collecting food stamps in the rust belt?
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  The overall economic cost of trying to maintain generation after generation doing the same thing with the same results far outweighs the people experiencing some pain of having to re-train, go to school or move elsewhere. If anything that's where the government should be trying to help, not trying to prop up industries with our tax dollars.
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    I think it’s also about resilience of global reliance and disruptions. “Someone’s gotta make stuff” as Elon puts it. Manufacturing of stupid trivial things like buttons and pins is still important to keep high volume manufacturing knowledge and knowhow.
    - knownjorbist 5y ago
      With select exceptions(defense, mainly), disruptions of the kind you're describing are best handled with multilateralism.
      - systemvoltage 5y ago
        Definitely defense, if you study history - how bacon grease was collected from homes to make lubricant for cartridges during WWII; making pins and buttons for clothes was turned into component manufacturing for airplanes almost overnight. Within a few days, people worked to convert equipment, draft new mechanisms, turn them at the machine shop, fixer-upper some machines - converted the entire enterprise into making shaft pins and washers. There were countless examples of how quickly manufacturing of A was converted to manufacturing of B. Ken Burns documentary goes much deeper into this and I find it totally fascinating. Chinese populace has an insane level of "jerry-rigging" capability because of how they bring costs down. This is a huge advantage in war manufacturing theater. This is now questionable as Americans (and Europeans alike) are constantly in consumption mode.
- underseacables 5y ago
  I think there is a serious disconnect between those who grew up with manufacturing, will appreciate it perhaps, and those that have no clue. It’s clear from some of these comments that there are some people that grew up in non-manufacturing household, non-manufacturing cities, and I think for them manufacturing is like McDonald’s. The local McDonald’s closed, oh well. I’m sure they’ll find another job. They can learn to code.
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    The ancestors of the people you're describing moved & learned new skills in that scenario. If markets are moving away from that particular niche, the government should not be artificially preserving the conditions under which generations can do the same thing and expect the same result. What happened to personal responsibility?

azinman2 5y ago

I wouldn’t blame politicians. It was very in vogue for businesses to outsource in the last 20 years, and if you didn’t do it, your competition would. It was a race to the bottom that the stock market reacted to, adding to the pressures. That’s the real driver.

hellbannedguy 5y ago

Wealthy private manufacturers lobbied politicians to make their widget in the cheapest country. I just wanted to make it clear it was greedy wealthy manufacturers whom abandoned their country in order to make a bigger wad.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

That's disingenuous. What happened is that economists created models that suggested open trade would be beneficial to everyone even if it caused temporary disruption and politicians implemented their ideas, likely with not insignificant prodding from businesses looking to cut costs. Whether or not those models are accurate is matter for debate.