5 ms·

I'm no expert but if your values don't stop you from buying things from countries that don't share them, maybe your values don't matter, right?

piva00 5y ago
Or maybe supply chains are so globalised and intertwined that you, as an individual, simply has no other choice in a number of categories of consumer goods. Good luck applying your morals against a global economic system.
- cardosof 5y ago
  That is, indeed, a good response and question. Like you can't have a cellphone without giving money to China, for example. The only way I see is to avoid consumerism, being conscious about it and voting on politicians with that kind of ideal and then, only then, someday, there should be a little bit of a chance for change.
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atomicnumber3 5y ago
How do you reasonably do that, though? The average person doesn't have the time or expertise to track the supply chain of ~anything they buy. At point-of-sale you're presented with, at best, a price and a brand name. And in many cases nowadays, like on Amazon, the brand name is just throwaway semi-English gibberish that rotates out every 4-8 weeks and has 5000+ fake reviews and is just some generic garbage that's being resold off Alibaba. I think it's really fair to say this is something that needs to be done by government regulation, not individual people. Even businesses will struggle with this unless they're in the top % of companies (both $-wise and market capture wise) and can afford to force their supply chain to capitulate to their audits/compliance demands.
- cardosof 5y ago
  IMO the only thing the everyday person can do about pretty much anything big nowadays is to vote and hope for slow change during decades.
michaelmrose 5y ago
We can't really expect people at Walmart to weigh the moral import of two different TVs. The information isnt at hand and quite frankly they are too stupid to do so. This is why we try to ensure everything they can buy there is unlikely to kill them if used properly. We can likewise that nothing there was made in circumstances or conditions we would find morally unacceptable.
CogitoCogito 5y ago
I kind of agree with you. But the point here is that we shouldn't treat this at an individual level. Individuals will never be able to police supply chains as others have pointed out. But we can certainly have regulators whose job is to do so. In the cases where our regulators don't have that duty to police/ban the import of goods produced contrary to our claimed values, I'd say the hypocrisy points to our not truly having those values as you say.

piva00 5y ago

Or maybe supply chains are so globalised and intertwined that you, as an individual, simply has no other choice in a number of categories of consumer goods. Good luck applying your morals against a global economic system.

cardosof 5y ago
That is, indeed, a good response and question. Like you can't have a cellphone without giving money to China, for example. The only way I see is to avoid consumerism, being conscious about it and voting on politicians with that kind of ideal and then, only then, someday, there should be a little bit of a chance for change.

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atomicnumber3 5y ago

How do you reasonably do that, though? The average person doesn't have the time or expertise to track the supply chain of ~anything they buy. At point-of-sale you're presented with, at best, a price and a brand name. And in many cases nowadays, like on Amazon, the brand name is just throwaway semi-English gibberish that rotates out every 4-8 weeks and has 5000+ fake reviews and is just some generic garbage that's being resold off Alibaba. I think it's really fair to say this is something that needs to be done by government regulation, not individual people. Even businesses will struggle with this unless they're in the top % of companies (both $-wise and market capture wise) and can afford to force their supply chain to capitulate to their audits/compliance demands.

cardosof 5y ago
IMO the only thing the everyday person can do about pretty much anything big nowadays is to vote and hope for slow change during decades.

michaelmrose 5y ago

We can't really expect people at Walmart to weigh the moral import of two different TVs. The information isnt at hand and quite frankly they are too stupid to do so. This is why we try to ensure everything they can buy there is unlikely to kill them if used properly. We can likewise that nothing there was made in circumstances or conditions we would find morally unacceptable.

CogitoCogito 5y ago

I kind of agree with you. But the point here is that we shouldn't treat this at an individual level. Individuals will never be able to police supply chains as others have pointed out. But we can certainly have regulators whose job is to do so. In the cases where our regulators don't have that duty to police/ban the import of goods produced contrary to our claimed values, I'd say the hypocrisy points to our not truly having those values as you say.