4 ms·

I may have another reason to add. I am toying with GIS tools these days and it kind of shocked me that when I queried for "most common amenities" in a medium s

by Iv 5y ago

I may have another reason to add. I am toying with GIS tools these days and it kind of shocked me that when I queried for "most common amenities" in a medium sized US city, I got: 1: parkings 2: places of worship Well above any educational facility.

beaconstudios 5y ago
surely if you want to go to the library in the US, you have to park there? Also, lack of atheism is not a sign of lack of education or presence of ignorance.
- Iv 5y ago
  I was not criticizing the prevalence of parking, it is obvious you need a lot because most amenities will have one. What I found weird was that places of worship is the second absolutely necessary amenity according to the American mindset. Places of worship are places where you are taught to respect a lot of indoctrination techniques as valid and where you do weekly exercises at shutting down critical thinking. I can't imagine it having a positive contribution over the wisdom of the general public.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    I don't think there's much worth responding to in this comment except to say that I disagree and that some atheists have very strange ideas about religion and I don't know if that's because they don't understand what's going on or something else.
evgen 5y ago
This is just dumb. A person spends 15% of their life using educational facilities. It is possible they will need parking and attend places of worship for close to 80% of their lives. The latter are also not amenable to geographic consolidation; you can't build one parking lot for entire medium sized city, but you might be able to only have one secondary school.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  I'm not sure how dumb it is if you really think about it. Why is theology the only field with widespread public lecture halls? Why can't I go to botany church every Saturday? If there was anywhere near the public interest in knowledge about the world as there is in knowledge about the world-to-come, you could go to church on Saturday to hear about botany. You wouldn't even have to cancel anything on Sunday.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    How is theology not knowledge about the world? Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning about how to lead a positive individual life within a society that enables said individuals. That's much more important to be informed about than botany. Having said that, skill-oriented communities would be great too - they primarily exist online right now because participants are often spread out, or otherwise take the form of friend groups based on shared interest.
    - heresie-dabord 5y ago
      > How is theology not knowledge about the world? Gather all the theologies into a room and get them to agree on the evidence for their points of dogma if you can. There's a first test of knowledge. Beyond pragmatic social strategy, these ancient tribal writings are a vestige of ignorant mummery. "My Sky Avenger versus your Sky Avenger," as George Carlin might have said. > Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning [...] Sure, humans (and likely other extinct hominins) have speculated about their life and the world. It is not given that all their conclusions favoured a Sky Avenger. Some notable ancient Greeks were atheists. So, no, "religion" does not contain thousands of years of experiential learning. Speculation only becomes learning when it can be tested. Arrant nonsense is not learning, even if bound in leather and printed in gold on vellum. Theology is knowledge only in the same sense that astrology, Scientology, or QAnon claims are knowledge. It is knowledge about a system of false and/or untestable assertions, constituting in all a set of conventions to which a power structure may ally itself. Old religions become mythology when there is no longer a power structure to promote them. People make pragmatic choices every day to live in the real world. Purveyors of religion just build fantasies atop these pragmatic choices.

by Iv 5y ago

beaconstudios 5y ago

surely if you want to go to the library in the US, you have to park there? Also, lack of atheism is not a sign of lack of education or presence of ignorance.

Iv 5y ago
I was not criticizing the prevalence of parking, it is obvious you need a lot because most amenities will have one. What I found weird was that places of worship is the second absolutely necessary amenity according to the American mindset. Places of worship are places where you are taught to respect a lot of indoctrination techniques as valid and where you do weekly exercises at shutting down critical thinking. I can't imagine it having a positive contribution over the wisdom of the general public.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  I don't think there's much worth responding to in this comment except to say that I disagree and that some atheists have very strange ideas about religion and I don't know if that's because they don't understand what's going on or something else.

evgen 5y ago

This is just dumb. A person spends 15% of their life using educational facilities. It is possible they will need parking and attend places of worship for close to 80% of their lives. The latter are also not amenable to geographic consolidation; you can't build one parking lot for entire medium sized city, but you might be able to only have one secondary school.

whatshisface 5y ago
I'm not sure how dumb it is if you really think about it. Why is theology the only field with widespread public lecture halls? Why can't I go to botany church every Saturday? If there was anywhere near the public interest in knowledge about the world as there is in knowledge about the world-to-come, you could go to church on Saturday to hear about botany. You wouldn't even have to cancel anything on Sunday.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  How is theology not knowledge about the world? Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning about how to lead a positive individual life within a society that enables said individuals. That's much more important to be informed about than botany. Having said that, skill-oriented communities would be great too - they primarily exist online right now because participants are often spread out, or otherwise take the form of friend groups based on shared interest.
  - heresie-dabord 5y ago
    > How is theology not knowledge about the world? Gather all the theologies into a room and get them to agree on the evidence for their points of dogma if you can. There's a first test of knowledge. Beyond pragmatic social strategy, these ancient tribal writings are a vestige of ignorant mummery. "My Sky Avenger versus your Sky Avenger," as George Carlin might have said. > Religion is the original form of moral philosophy and sociology, and contains thousands of years of experiential learning [...] Sure, humans (and likely other extinct hominins) have speculated about their life and the world. It is not given that all their conclusions favoured a Sky Avenger. Some notable ancient Greeks were atheists. So, no, "religion" does not contain thousands of years of experiential learning. Speculation only becomes learning when it can be tested. Arrant nonsense is not learning, even if bound in leather and printed in gold on vellum. Theology is knowledge only in the same sense that astrology, Scientology, or QAnon claims are knowledge. It is knowledge about a system of false and/or untestable assertions, constituting in all a set of conventions to which a power structure may ally itself. Old religions become mythology when there is no longer a power structure to promote them. People make pragmatic choices every day to live in the real world. Purveyors of religion just build fantasies atop these pragmatic choices.