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Interesting. I thought I recalled talking about this on HN previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10355868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10355
by jameshart 5y ago
Interesting. I thought I recalled talking about this on HN previously:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10355868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10355868
_-__--- on Oct 8, 2015 | parent | favorite | on: Verizon revives "zombie cookie" device tracking on...
Tor as an OS-level feature may not spark the best reaction. It's been given a bad name ("deep web," silk road, etc) in mass media and many people don't understand it enough to think of it as anything other than bad.
I think that it'd be cool to have, but I don't think that Apple would ever implement it.
jameshart on Oct 8, 2015 [–]
Agree, it's phenomenally unlikely, but then again there is a part of me which could actually imagine Apple doing something like it. They wouldn't use Tor, of course, they'd build a proprietary equivalent, and then come out on a black stage to 'introduce Apple Undercover, a revolutionary enhancement to personal network privacy and security'.
- matt-attack 5y agoWow props for quite a prediction. You definitely deserve some recognition for that one.
- toxik 5y agoAn even more impressive prediction in 2015, a time when Apple was not positioned as some type of savior of user privacy.
- jameshart 5y agoI’m not so sure. If you read back up that thread, the thought that triggered it was from qzervaas: Apple's already shown they don't like this behaviour with their randomised MAC addresses in iOS 8+. And elsewhere in the thread people called out the fact apple had already introduced support for ad blocking. So Apple’s privacy-positive posture was already in the air. I think there is a sense in which privacy was already a differentiator for Apple in iOS (as contrasted with Google’s motives in android in particular of course) - so this did feel like a not completely implausible way they could go to double down on that differentiator.
- simonh 5y agoSteve Jobs talking about this at D8 in 2010, and of course the privacy features he talks about were baked into the OS APIs from the start. Apple's rift with Google over user data collection in Google Maps goes back to 2009 when Google held Apple to ransom for the user data in return for turn-by-turn directions. Apple refused and started building their own maps service, buying Placebase in July that year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKLwlUqBo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iKLwlUqBo
- shaicoleman 5y agoIf anyone's interested in reading more, here's an article which discusses why Apple switched from Google Maps: http://allthingsd.com/20120926/apple-google-maps-talks-crashed-over-voice-guided-directions/ http://allthingsd.com/20120926/apple-google-maps-talks-crash...
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- tialaramex 5y agoIt's really not about privacy though, the insight needed (not that I'm saying it was easy to make this particular prediction) is that Apple is all about the Walled Garden. It can't be Tor because Apple doesn't own Tor, and so that's not inside the Walled Garden, whereas "Apple Undercover" even if it were functionally no better or worse than Tor, is magically blessed by the Apple branding. And Apple have been all about Walled Gardens for decades.
- yarcob 5y agoTor has reputation problems. Lots of services block tor exit nodes because of all the abuse that comes from them. By making it a feature for paying subscribers only, Apple probably hopes that their solution won't be interesting for criminals. (Apple will likely cooperate with law enforcement)
- ev1 5y agoUsing Tor would be an insane choice for 99% of Apple users. "Oh, let me turn on undercover... why is my bank online account suspended and my PayPal banned?"
- hlau 5y agoI actually wrote a deep dive on Apple’s pivot to privacy. https://saturation.substack.com/p/apple-facebook-and-the-global-race https://saturation.substack.com/p/apple-facebook-and-the-glo...
- shoto_io 5y agoHey there, can I call you? I have some questions about the future!
- nabla9 5y agoApple is in crossfire: (a) There is pressure from many governments to give backdoor for surveillance. Or just comply with subpoenas that are against human rights. (b) Complying with local laws generates PR damage. It makes privacy and ethics as a brand strategy look disingenuous. The solution is, of course, to generate truly secure system where Apple can't make backdoors. Those services may not be available in some countries, but then it's just missing service, not a compromised system.
- gjsman-1000 5y agoThis is something Apple is increasingly working on. For example, in Fall 2020 they actually revised their CPU designs (including older CPUs) with a new Secure Enclave design that uses mailboxes to more securely store the number authentication attempts inside the secure enclave. The goal of this is to make it so that even if the FBI had an incident similar to 2016, Apple would not be able to fulfill their request to make a backdoor, and the FBI wouldn't be able to make a backdoor even if they had the power to sign and run any code they wanted on the phone. That's how you make a secure system these days. You can't just make it secure to everyone but yourself and fight the government - you need to secure it from yourself as well.
- shard 5y agoThat only works if you don't give control of the servers over to a third party and also use encryption on the servers. Which Apple has not been able to do across the board.
- ksec 5y agoThat is only true as far as your on devices Data. They still have to provide everything they have on iCloud.
- headmelted 5y agoYour prediction of it being called Apple Undercover is significantly more 80’s though. And I like it. So much so that I would accept Apple using something other than Helvetica this one time for a Miami Vice typeface and a Michael Knight and Kitt intro at WWDC. I cannot stress enough that Hasselhoff needs to stay in character the entire time or the whole concept doesn’t work.
- tobr 5y ago> I would accept Apple using something other than Helvetica At this point, Helvetica itself would give a retro feeling if used by Apple. They’ve been all in on San Francisco for several years.
- mkr-hn 5y agoHasselhoff drifts on to stage in KITT, jumps out, and tackles Tim Cook. They then get up, shake, laugh, and take turns explaining how iCloud+ VPN makes it look like everything you do online comes from Apple.
- headmelted 5y agoHe may sing in German as the musical guest they sometimes have at the end of the keynotes, but that’s as much flexibility as I’m willing to allow.
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- mikeiz404 5y agoNo offense or anything but what’s the point of making this comment outside of showing that you were right? Good prediction.
- jameshart 5y ago(Fair question. I just found it amusing. I'm annoyed it got voted to the top. For substantive discussion, people should look down page)
- ksec 5y agoDont. You should be proud. I made numerous prediction that turns out to be right when everyone else is calling you crazy. You should enjoy the moment of victory. And I do remember reading your comment at the time, so it is great you link it back.
- Legion 5y agoI love the moments when you can point back to an old post and say, "called that!" (No snark, I really do love it.) Enjoy the moment, future seer.
- amznthrwaway 5y agoI mean, he also said it was phenomenally unlikely…. Maybe 1/2 a point.