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The continuity is an illusion. What is continuous? The matter in your body? The way your brain is wired? Your memories? All of these things are in a more or les

The continuity is an illusion. What is continuous? The matter in your body? The way your brain is wired? Your memories? All of these things are in a more or less constant state of change. That's without getting in to things like the concept that you might just be a Boltzmann Brain. The only "you" that you can be certain of is the one experiencing its existence in the immediate moment. Perform this thought experiment: identify things that make you "you". Now, one by one, ask yourself "if that was stripped from me, would I still be me?". Are you still you without each of your memories? Without each of your talents? Your opinions? Your body? Your genes? Continue long enough and I believe you will see that there is literally nothing you can't strip away. Consider things like Alien Hand Syndrome, or that people can live with half their brain removed and it doesn't even matter which half. Which hemisphere is the one that contains "you"? Consider why people are willing to sacrifice their lives for others. Why do people voluntarily end their own existence for the betterment of their children, their community, their nation, or their ideals? There are literally thousands of years of philosophical writing on the concept that I cannot hope to do justice to.

Nursie 5y ago
> The continuity is an illusion. That is an assertion. > Your body? No, my body is part of me, it makes little sense to try to divorce what appears to be the emergent phenomenon of consciousness from the wetware that it runs on. There is no sense in which I am not tied to my brain. > Your genes? No, I likely would be different without my particular genetic makeup. It's an odd question to ask, there's not really a way to separate me from that. > Consider things like Alien Hand Syndrome, or that people can live with half their brain removed and it doesn't even matter which half People can live, but damage to parts of the brain very much changes them, and can change all aspects of their personality. At that point the "you" is very much changed or (usually) diminished. But that doesn't speak to continuity of experience or singularity either. None of this makes any difference or even much sense in the context of my consciousness being continuous or singular. It's subject to change and physical damage. That doesn't mean if you copy my brain into a computer somehow that it's anything other than a copy, I will not experience its experiences, live its life. > Consider why people are willing to sacrifice their lives for others This seems entirely orthogonal to any question about whether consciousness is continuous or singular. There are many reasons that people may choose to do this, none of them maintains their conscious experience.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  > > The continuity is an illusion. > That is an assertion. Yes. > No, my body is part of me, it makes little sense to try to divorce what appears to be the emergent phenomenon of consciousness from the wetware that it runs on. There is no sense in which I am not tied to my brain. Interesting that you used "brain" at the end when instead of the body as a whole, isn't it? If parts of your brain started to degrade and fail, but could be replaced with machine equivalents, would the result not be "you"? How much would need to be replaced before it stopped being "you"? How is that change different from the changes your brain underwent during your growth as a human being? > People can live, but damage to parts of the brain very much changes them, and can change all aspects of their personality. At that point the "you" is very much changed or (usually) diminished. But that doesn't speak to continuity of experience or singularity either. That just begs the question: how much change is necessary to make "you" no longer "you"? You have undoubtedly undergone extreme changes in both body and mind over the course of your life and will continue to do so but, for some reason, still consider yourself the same "you". Which is it, by the way? Is the conscious experience "you" or are "you" defined by your personality and traits? > None of this makes any difference or even much sense in the context of my consciousness being continuous or singular. It's subject to change and physical damage. That doesn't mean if you copy my brain into a computer somehow that it's anything other than a copy, I will not experience its experiences, live its life. I think it makes all the difference, because the only reason you assume this continuity exists is because you have memories, which are a property of how your mind works and provided by your brain with input from your body. Or at least that's what your memories of biology and neurology lessons tell you. Memories are, science tells us, pretty malleable. But the thing is, you do not experience the past, you only experience memories of the past, your conscious experience exists now and only now. There is no continuation. If you define "you" as your conscious experience, then your body and mind are irrelevant except as an interface to experience the world. Your copy will also have memories and remember being you. It will believe it is the same "you" as you do, and the only reason you will believe it is wrong is that you remember being you and have the "original" (again, not a static entity) body. But if your conscious experience is what defines you as "you", then that is irrelevant. > > Consider why people are willing to sacrifice their lives for others > This seems entirely orthogonal to any question about whether consciousness is continuous or singular. There are many reasons that people may choose to do this, none of them maintains their conscious experience. Yes, that's precisely the point. The reasons people do it are precisely the point. Remember this all started with your statement: > If a fork or a copy can be made and run on a computer of some sort, it would be a technological marvel. But it’s not the sort of immortality I’d be interested in, if little old biological me still shuffles off and dies somewhere. Yet parents are interested in the continuation of their children even if they themselves still shuffle off and die. In fact, they are so deeply devoted to it that they will often sacrifice their own lives prematurely to ensure it. Why should that matter to them more than the continuation of their self? Here's another assertion for you: self can be greater than "I".

Nursie 5y ago

> The continuity is an illusion. That is an assertion. > Your body? No, my body is part of me, it makes little sense to try to divorce what appears to be the emergent phenomenon of consciousness from the wetware that it runs on. There is no sense in which I am not tied to my brain. > Your genes? No, I likely would be different without my particular genetic makeup. It's an odd question to ask, there's not really a way to separate me from that. > Consider things like Alien Hand Syndrome, or that people can live with half their brain removed and it doesn't even matter which half People can live, but damage to parts of the brain very much changes them, and can change all aspects of their personality. At that point the "you" is very much changed or (usually) diminished. But that doesn't speak to continuity of experience or singularity either. None of this makes any difference or even much sense in the context of my consciousness being continuous or singular. It's subject to change and physical damage. That doesn't mean if you copy my brain into a computer somehow that it's anything other than a copy, I will not experience its experiences, live its life. > Consider why people are willing to sacrifice their lives for others This seems entirely orthogonal to any question about whether consciousness is continuous or singular. There are many reasons that people may choose to do this, none of them maintains their conscious experience.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
> > The continuity is an illusion. > That is an assertion. Yes. > No, my body is part of me, it makes little sense to try to divorce what appears to be the emergent phenomenon of consciousness from the wetware that it runs on. There is no sense in which I am not tied to my brain. Interesting that you used "brain" at the end when instead of the body as a whole, isn't it? If parts of your brain started to degrade and fail, but could be replaced with machine equivalents, would the result not be "you"? How much would need to be replaced before it stopped being "you"? How is that change different from the changes your brain underwent during your growth as a human being? > People can live, but damage to parts of the brain very much changes them, and can change all aspects of their personality. At that point the "you" is very much changed or (usually) diminished. But that doesn't speak to continuity of experience or singularity either. That just begs the question: how much change is necessary to make "you" no longer "you"? You have undoubtedly undergone extreme changes in both body and mind over the course of your life and will continue to do so but, for some reason, still consider yourself the same "you". Which is it, by the way? Is the conscious experience "you" or are "you" defined by your personality and traits? > None of this makes any difference or even much sense in the context of my consciousness being continuous or singular. It's subject to change and physical damage. That doesn't mean if you copy my brain into a computer somehow that it's anything other than a copy, I will not experience its experiences, live its life. I think it makes all the difference, because the only reason you assume this continuity exists is because you have memories, which are a property of how your mind works and provided by your brain with input from your body. Or at least that's what your memories of biology and neurology lessons tell you. Memories are, science tells us, pretty malleable. But the thing is, you do not experience the past, you only experience memories of the past, your conscious experience exists now and only now. There is no continuation. If you define "you" as your conscious experience, then your body and mind are irrelevant except as an interface to experience the world. Your copy will also have memories and remember being you. It will believe it is the same "you" as you do, and the only reason you will believe it is wrong is that you remember being you and have the "original" (again, not a static entity) body. But if your conscious experience is what defines you as "you", then that is irrelevant. > > Consider why people are willing to sacrifice their lives for others > This seems entirely orthogonal to any question about whether consciousness is continuous or singular. There are many reasons that people may choose to do this, none of them maintains their conscious experience. Yes, that's precisely the point. The reasons people do it are precisely the point. Remember this all started with your statement: > If a fork or a copy can be made and run on a computer of some sort, it would be a technological marvel. But it’s not the sort of immortality I’d be interested in, if little old biological me still shuffles off and dies somewhere. Yet parents are interested in the continuation of their children even if they themselves still shuffle off and die. In fact, they are so deeply devoted to it that they will often sacrifice their own lives prematurely to ensure it. Why should that matter to them more than the continuation of their self? Here's another assertion for you: self can be greater than "I".