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No, enforcement is an easy problem. You sink violating ships. Fishermen will give your coastal waters a wide berth if they know there is even a 1% probability

No, enforcement is an easy problem. You sink violating ships. Fishermen will give your coastal waters a wide berth if they know there is even a 1% probability they will be killed. If you're not willing to sink ships then it's pretty much impossible.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Someone 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiribati#Law_enforcement_and_military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiribati#Law_enforcement_and_m...: Kiribati has no military and relies on both Australia and New Zealand for its defence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_New_Guinea_Defence_Force#Maritime_Element https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_New_Guinea_Defence_Force...: According to Janes the navy is badly underfunded and much of its equipment is in need of maintenance; as a consequence it is scarcely able to carry out its tasks, with operations often delayed or cancelled. The navy's patrol craft are barely effective; fuel costs and maintenance problems mean that often only one boat is available for sea duty at any time, while the heavy landing craft have high upkeep costs and are nearing the end of their service life. Although the patrol boats may be at times serviceable, the task of patrolling such a large Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) is too great and they are heavily reliant for information about the presence of foreign ships on daily reports supplied by US satellite surveillance. The main concern is illegal tuna fishing by Japanese vessels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Islands#Military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Islands#Military: the country has not had any regular military forces since independence. The various paramilitary elements of the Royal Solomon Islands Police Force (RSIPF) were disbanded and disarmed in 2003 following the intervention of the Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands (RAMSI). RAMSI has a small military detachment headed by an Australian commander with responsibilities for assisting the police element of RAMSI in internal and external security. The RSIPF still operates two Pacific class patrol boats (RSIPV Auki and RSIPV Lata), which constitute the de facto navy of Solomon Islands. I suspect the other countries have similar military power.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Having satellite coverage, especially wide field-of-view naval reconnaissance types, would seem more valuable than brute force and numbers. Especially since I believe fishing fleets have centralized utility boats? Impound a processing & refrigeration ship... and what's the rest of the fleet going to do? [Edit] US example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Ocean_Surveillance_System https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Ocean_Surveillance_Sys... Also, apparently the ex-Soviet radar version with the brilliant idea of boosting their nuclear reactors into a higher orbit at EOL: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A
  - sithadmin 5y ago
    Fishing fleet support vessels and factory/processing ships tend to stay in international waters, outside the reach of any particular nation's coast guard or naval forces. Many such vessels rarely, if ever, visit a port to avoid actions like boarding and seizure. And when they do, they try to dock at a port in a jurisdiction that's unlikely (or expressly made it clear) they aren't going to take any sort of police action against the vessel and its crew. While these vessels are out in international waters, one can't simply board/seize/sink such vessels without causing a major diplomatic incident with economic consequences at best. At worst, it would be perceived as an act of war and invite military response.
specialist 5y ago
My crazy notion is to attach some kind of mechanical remora to offending vessels. Something that attaches below the water line. Slows the vessel. Messes with the nets. Has to go back to port to be removed. Or maybe ensnare the vessels, like the Tholians did to USS Enterprise. Defenders equip fast ships with spools of nylon. Race around the offenders, dragging the nylon, hoping to tangle their props. Mindful to stay out of gun shot range.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  In the “cod wars” between Iceland and UK Icelandic coast guard ships were cutting off the trawling nets. Not sure how well that works nowadays.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  Since you will only be able to hit a tiny fraction of the ships, the enforcement has to be deadly, or the incentive will still be to violate.
  - specialist 5y ago
    I understand. If I could hurt the Bad Guys, I would consider it. But from my reading of the popular press, many of the workers are victims too.
pjc50 5y ago
The legality of this under international law is .. questionable. It's also a very American solution, extra-judicial execution by the state away from any witnesses.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  The rules of due process in civilian court don't apply to nations enforcing their rights to sovereignty against foreign incursion. And if you think extra-judicial execution is "American," I'd like to introduce you to the entire history of Earth.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > the entire history of Earth. History has a lot of reprisal attacks too, vengeances etc. Not a road to go down lightly with any nation, let alone China. IDK, I hesitate to call thinking that this is a simple or good idea "very American", but a certain sector of American internet forum commenting civilians do tend to think this way. Serious people, American or otherwise, not so much.
BitwiseFool 5y ago
I can't think of a single nation that wants to deal with the consequences of sinking a vessel with Chinese citizens on it. In all likelihood it won't lead to a shooting war but the CCP has so much power and influence that they could severely disrupt any nation's economy.
- batushka3 5y ago
  But time has come. Enough for chinese poachers to fish the oceans dry.
- dan-robertson 5y ago
  I think some South American countries (Chile or Argentina) have sunk illegal Chinese fishing vessels in their waters.
driverdan 5y ago
Why? It would be far better for them to capture the vessels and sell them to their own citizens.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Someone 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiribati#Law_enforcement_and_military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiribati#Law_enforcement_and_m...: Kiribati has no military and relies on both Australia and New Zealand for its defence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_New_Guinea_Defence_Force#Maritime_Element https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_New_Guinea_Defence_Force...: According to Janes the navy is badly underfunded and much of its equipment is in need of maintenance; as a consequence it is scarcely able to carry out its tasks, with operations often delayed or cancelled. The navy's patrol craft are barely effective; fuel costs and maintenance problems mean that often only one boat is available for sea duty at any time, while the heavy landing craft have high upkeep costs and are nearing the end of their service life. Although the patrol boats may be at times serviceable, the task of patrolling such a large Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) is too great and they are heavily reliant for information about the presence of foreign ships on daily reports supplied by US satellite surveillance. The main concern is illegal tuna fishing by Japanese vessels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Islands#Military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Islands#Military: the country has not had any regular military forces since independence. The various paramilitary elements of the Royal Solomon Islands Police Force (RSIPF) were disbanded and disarmed in 2003 following the intervention of the Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon Islands (RAMSI). RAMSI has a small military detachment headed by an Australian commander with responsibilities for assisting the police element of RAMSI in internal and external security. The RSIPF still operates two Pacific class patrol boats (RSIPV Auki and RSIPV Lata), which constitute the de facto navy of Solomon Islands. I suspect the other countries have similar military power.

ethbr0 5y ago
Having satellite coverage, especially wide field-of-view naval reconnaissance types, would seem more valuable than brute force and numbers. Especially since I believe fishing fleets have centralized utility boats? Impound a processing & refrigeration ship... and what's the rest of the fleet going to do? [Edit] US example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Ocean_Surveillance_System https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Ocean_Surveillance_Sys... Also, apparently the ex-Soviet radar version with the brilliant idea of boosting their nuclear reactors into a higher orbit at EOL: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A
- sithadmin 5y ago
  Fishing fleet support vessels and factory/processing ships tend to stay in international waters, outside the reach of any particular nation's coast guard or naval forces. Many such vessels rarely, if ever, visit a port to avoid actions like boarding and seizure. And when they do, they try to dock at a port in a jurisdiction that's unlikely (or expressly made it clear) they aren't going to take any sort of police action against the vessel and its crew. While these vessels are out in international waters, one can't simply board/seize/sink such vessels without causing a major diplomatic incident with economic consequences at best. At worst, it would be perceived as an act of war and invite military response.

specialist 5y ago

My crazy notion is to attach some kind of mechanical remora to offending vessels. Something that attaches below the water line. Slows the vessel. Messes with the nets. Has to go back to port to be removed. Or maybe ensnare the vessels, like the Tholians did to USS Enterprise. Defenders equip fast ships with spools of nylon. Race around the offenders, dragging the nylon, hoping to tangle their props. Mindful to stay out of gun shot range.

rich_sasha 5y ago
In the “cod wars” between Iceland and UK Icelandic coast guard ships were cutting off the trawling nets. Not sure how well that works nowadays.
fallingknife 5y ago
Since you will only be able to hit a tiny fraction of the ships, the enforcement has to be deadly, or the incentive will still be to violate.
- specialist 5y ago
  I understand. If I could hurt the Bad Guys, I would consider it. But from my reading of the popular press, many of the workers are victims too.

pjc50 5y ago

The legality of this under international law is .. questionable. It's also a very American solution, extra-judicial execution by the state away from any witnesses.

fallingknife 5y ago
The rules of due process in civilian court don't apply to nations enforcing their rights to sovereignty against foreign incursion. And if you think extra-judicial execution is "American," I'd like to introduce you to the entire history of Earth.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > the entire history of Earth. History has a lot of reprisal attacks too, vengeances etc. Not a road to go down lightly with any nation, let alone China. IDK, I hesitate to call thinking that this is a simple or good idea "very American", but a certain sector of American internet forum commenting civilians do tend to think this way. Serious people, American or otherwise, not so much.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

I can't think of a single nation that wants to deal with the consequences of sinking a vessel with Chinese citizens on it. In all likelihood it won't lead to a shooting war but the CCP has so much power and influence that they could severely disrupt any nation's economy.

batushka3 5y ago
But time has come. Enough for chinese poachers to fish the oceans dry.
dan-robertson 5y ago
I think some South American countries (Chile or Argentina) have sunk illegal Chinese fishing vessels in their waters.

driverdan 5y ago

Why? It would be far better for them to capture the vessels and sell them to their own citizens.