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>the plausibility of Phoecians, Romans, reaching the Americas. Could have not really. Their ships (even quite large ones for example https://en.wikipedia.org/w

by trhway 5y ago

>the plausibility of Phoecians, Romans, reaching the Americas. Could have not really. Their ships (even quite large ones for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympias_(trireme)#/media/File:Olympias.1.JPG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympias_(trireme)#/media/File...) weren't ocean going (like for example giving the way of construction the hulls wouldn't have been able to sustain the heavy waves stress for many days, etc.). To compare this is an example of the ocean going ships - Viking drakkar - in which Americas were first reached: https://youtu.be/XORSpUUy0lQ?list=RDCMUCNnLNJLZj11RlFYq4HZ6cTQ&t=120 https://youtu.be/XORSpUUy0lQ?list=RDCMUCNnLNJLZj11RlFYq4HZ6c...

garmaine 5y ago
That said, there is some evidence there may be a roman shipwreck off the coast of Brazil, which has yet to be excavated. While roman designs are not ocean-going, it's entirely possible that they might have been blown off-course and managed to survive the journey.
- saalweachter 5y ago
  Would we expect the sailors to have survived as well? Or would they have run out of water like halfway across?
  - b_t_s 5y ago
    If the ship was intact, they were probably fine with water. A large ship departing harbor without a few months of water onboard would be the most egregious incompetence on the part of the quartermaster. If they were low on water, then you can be sure they would capture rainwater at the first opportunity, and in the tropics they would have to be pretty unlucky to get no rain. Also, this voyage is commonly done in 3 weeks or less. Africa to northern Brazil is the shortest crossing, and it's a downwind run the entire way. That said, if the ship was irreparably damaged anywhere off the NW coast of Africa, it _would_ likely wash up somewhere along the north coast of S America or the Caribbean regardless of the sate of the crew.
  - garmaine 5y ago
    Since the ship is believed to be near the mouth of a river, that would imply that some sailors survived the trip and navigated to a source of fresh water.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
You're projecting modern standards of safety and reliability into a millennium in which they do not belong. Nobody is gonna sail a warship with a huge expensive crew across the ocean without a damn good reason. Such reason almost certainly never materialized, that's a given. But local mediteranean cargo vessels are more than seaworthy enough to cross the Atlantic in the same way that I can haul 3000lb in a Ford Ranger. Water and navigation will be your issues. The capability to get it done with not that much luck needed is there. I can't think of is why someone would both have the requisite provisions and a reason to sail west for weeks on end other than a "Skydiving From Space, Brought to you by Red Bull(TM) " style vanity project. And the economic surpluses at the time simply weren't large enough to support a lot of that kind of activity so it's doubtful anyone would have done it.

by trhway 5y ago

garmaine 5y ago

That said, there is some evidence there may be a roman shipwreck off the coast of Brazil, which has yet to be excavated. While roman designs are not ocean-going, it's entirely possible that they might have been blown off-course and managed to survive the journey.

saalweachter 5y ago
Would we expect the sailors to have survived as well? Or would they have run out of water like halfway across?
- b_t_s 5y ago
  If the ship was intact, they were probably fine with water. A large ship departing harbor without a few months of water onboard would be the most egregious incompetence on the part of the quartermaster. If they were low on water, then you can be sure they would capture rainwater at the first opportunity, and in the tropics they would have to be pretty unlucky to get no rain. Also, this voyage is commonly done in 3 weeks or less. Africa to northern Brazil is the shortest crossing, and it's a downwind run the entire way. That said, if the ship was irreparably damaged anywhere off the NW coast of Africa, it _would_ likely wash up somewhere along the north coast of S America or the Caribbean regardless of the sate of the crew.
- garmaine 5y ago
  Since the ship is believed to be near the mouth of a river, that would imply that some sailors survived the trip and navigated to a source of fresh water.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

You're projecting modern standards of safety and reliability into a millennium in which they do not belong. Nobody is gonna sail a warship with a huge expensive crew across the ocean without a damn good reason. Such reason almost certainly never materialized, that's a given. But local mediteranean cargo vessels are more than seaworthy enough to cross the Atlantic in the same way that I can haul 3000lb in a Ford Ranger. Water and navigation will be your issues. The capability to get it done with not that much luck needed is there. I can't think of is why someone would both have the requisite provisions and a reason to sail west for weeks on end other than a "Skydiving From Space, Brought to you by Red Bull(TM) " style vanity project. And the economic surpluses at the time simply weren't large enough to support a lot of that kind of activity so it's doubtful anyone would have done it.