3 ms·

The order in which you name those three items is weird. The main goal is rehabilitation, and, to a certain extent, deterrence. Punishment was a goal a medieva

The order in which you name those three items is weird. The main goal is rehabilitation, and, to a certain extent, deterrence. Punishment was a goal a medieval ages, and, though it still it in some countries in modern times, it's still a medieval practice. You want to _educate_ those who do wrong so that they do better (e.g.: rehabilitation). Punishment would only result in resentment.

josephg 5y ago
Plenty of people want criminals to suffer. Eg, from earlier in this thread: > In cases where the victim never gets to move on with his or her life how much should we work towards making sure the victimizer can? Ie, “the perpetrator should suffer at least as much as the victim”. I’m sympathetic to the argument that this is medieval and not aligned with humanist ethics. But plenty of people, at least in the US obviously think this way.
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  I know I shouldn't read reddit comments, but I always find it alarming how many people want to throw people in jail immediately for any minor infraction.
  - josephg 5y ago
    Personally I blame children's cartoons (and comic books, superhero movies, and so on). The core tension in those stories centers around a hero and a villain. The hero is always good and the villain is always bad. If the world truly worked that way, it really would make sense to just throw all criminals in jail and leave them to rot in prison forever. If you commit a crime, thats proof you're one of the baddies, so if you ever get out of jail the assumption is you'd just commit more crimes. The Joker is never rehabilitated in prison. People justify this sort of thinking by pointing to psychopaths and mass murderers. But they're a tiny fraction of the felon population. Most people in jail are mostly normal people who have been poorly socialised. (Hence Norway's tiny recidivism rate. Norway's prison system is essentially a complex socialisation program.) I don't think its a coincidence that cancel culture is also missing a notion of repentance. Why would that guy who masturbated in front of some women ever change? Better just burn the evildoers, to cure society of evil. There is much better fiction for young minds. Anime is great at this - there are very few characters in anime who are simply evil. Most of the antagonists are also sympathetic characters, and usually the heroes of their own stories. Eg, Lady Eboshi in Princess Mononoke. Pixar does great work here too - Inside Out doesn't have an antagonist at all. And Les Miserables recursively makes this the motivation behind its policeman antagonist - "Once a thief / Always a thief. What you want you will always steal". And the moral climax of the movie - when our (criminal) hero has the (policeman) antagonist at his mercy. The policeman wants the criminal to kill him, because even though he would die, he would die vindicated in his beliefs. And instead our hero lets him go.
pandaman 5y ago
The goal of punishment is to prevent extrajudicial retaliation. It's been as actual since before the medieval ages as it is now.

josephg 5y ago

Plenty of people want criminals to suffer. Eg, from earlier in this thread: > In cases where the victim never gets to move on with his or her life how much should we work towards making sure the victimizer can? Ie, “the perpetrator should suffer at least as much as the victim”. I’m sympathetic to the argument that this is medieval and not aligned with humanist ethics. But plenty of people, at least in the US obviously think this way.

brokenmachine 5y ago
I know I shouldn't read reddit comments, but I always find it alarming how many people want to throw people in jail immediately for any minor infraction.
- josephg 5y ago
  Personally I blame children's cartoons (and comic books, superhero movies, and so on). The core tension in those stories centers around a hero and a villain. The hero is always good and the villain is always bad. If the world truly worked that way, it really would make sense to just throw all criminals in jail and leave them to rot in prison forever. If you commit a crime, thats proof you're one of the baddies, so if you ever get out of jail the assumption is you'd just commit more crimes. The Joker is never rehabilitated in prison. People justify this sort of thinking by pointing to psychopaths and mass murderers. But they're a tiny fraction of the felon population. Most people in jail are mostly normal people who have been poorly socialised. (Hence Norway's tiny recidivism rate. Norway's prison system is essentially a complex socialisation program.) I don't think its a coincidence that cancel culture is also missing a notion of repentance. Why would that guy who masturbated in front of some women ever change? Better just burn the evildoers, to cure society of evil. There is much better fiction for young minds. Anime is great at this - there are very few characters in anime who are simply evil. Most of the antagonists are also sympathetic characters, and usually the heroes of their own stories. Eg, Lady Eboshi in Princess Mononoke. Pixar does great work here too - Inside Out doesn't have an antagonist at all. And Les Miserables recursively makes this the motivation behind its policeman antagonist - "Once a thief / Always a thief. What you want you will always steal". And the moral climax of the movie - when our (criminal) hero has the (policeman) antagonist at his mercy. The policeman wants the criminal to kill him, because even though he would die, he would die vindicated in his beliefs. And instead our hero lets him go.

pandaman 5y ago

The goal of punishment is to prevent extrajudicial retaliation. It's been as actual since before the medieval ages as it is now.